to think the NHS is a bit crap

[eyebags63]

And because it is treated almost as a kind of religion nobody is allowed to say anything negative about it at all. And actually just because it is "free" (a mere 110bn a year) doesn't mean we should be eternally grateful for bad treatment.

My experiences are of elderly relatives being mistreated in hospital, non-existent services in some areas, screw-ups, buck passing, treatment delays, being treated as a number with no dignity or privacy, a significant number of staff that appear not to care one little bit. I could go on.

In other health systems people can get referred and treated within days or weeks. Here we accept that waiting for months on end in pain is normal. We accept exhausted staff, lack of access, dirty hospitals, ambulances queuing outside hospitals and restricted treatment resources.

Yes it is "free at the point of use", but isn't that half of the problem? Walk into any GP surgery or A&E and you can witness so many abuses of the system. On the other hand genuine patients are often seem to be treated as a nuisance.

I'm not saying the NHS should be scrapped but surely it is about time we at least looked at different ways of doing things.

I realise that having not rtft my post is probably irrelevant, but I just wanted to get it off my chest.

Also to add.....I've had 3 breast lumps and each time have seen a specialist within 2 weeks

I've had blood in my urine and had a cystoscopy and scan within 2 weeks,

I've had cervical polyps removed, a colposcopy and coil fitted all in the same room taking only an hour or so,

All of my 3 children have had MRI scans which also would have cost £thousands

I will stop now as I'm ranting, but I feel very strongly that the NHS is fabulous

A couple of years ago DH was rushed in on a Sunday with a complication to an existing condition. We were literally inundated by A&E staff. It turned out that half an hour later would have been potentially fatal.

Anyway, there we were surrounded by the most amazingly professional people, at one point there were 11 people at his bed. Not kidding. Thanks to them he pulled through. I can never, ever repay them.

Here's the interesting side-note that I only thought about afterwards. When we arrived at 9.30 the waiting room packed. I actually worried how long we'd have to wait when I saw them all. Presumably because DH sucked up a lot of staff at about 10.30 I could hear the tannoy announcing a 4 hour wait for walk in. When I went out in the waiting room again it was virtually empty.

So I have always wondered, where did these people in situations they considered warranted a trip to A&E go?

But you can be grateful for a service and still recognise it is failing in a lot of places.

Totally agree!

My experiences with the NHS, on the whole, have been positive. I'm grateful we have the NHS, but continuing to treat it like some sort of untouchable holy grail won't do anyone, least of all the NHS itself any favours in the long run.

yoni hope you brother is ok, he's in good hands

I'm no nhs fanatic either.

I think people get to hung up on thinking no nhs would mean we'd have the American system. Yes I'd prefer the nhs to that but there are lots of good health systems that operate differently.

My family & I have had so many bad experiences with the nhs, negligent malpractice, a doctor sent to jail, misdiagnosis, unnecessary surgery, delayed referrals, lack of local provision, refusal to perform necessary tests, inability to access GP, etc. some of this has caused 'life changing' disability and/or trauma.

Maybe this would have happened in a different type of system anyway? Who knows.

It's not the NHS that is the problem, but the fuckwits running the Country!
The care you get varies to which hospital you are attending and what part of the service you are accessing.
My twins were prem and in NICU for two months. The care was excellent.
A family member went to GP recently, really ill and told they had mild chest infection. Two days later rushed to A&E, they actually have pneumonia, now very I'll in hospital.
That is the NHS, both good and bad, but it is better than the alternative of private health insurance (shudders).

But you can be grateful for a service and still recognise it is failing in a lot of places.

^This. The NHS has to be subject to scrutiny, just like everyone else.

YANBU.

The NHS is, fundamentally, a bit crap. It's dying on its arse, haemorrhaging money, teeming with rubbish staff (some overworked and at breaking point, others just shit), abused to the point of farce... something needs to change.

I am grateful that I'm allowed to have a c section on the NHS in May (really grateful - I sure as hell couldn't go private) I am simultaneously terrified of being a hospital inpatient. The one other occasion, after the birth of my first child, was the worst experience of my life. It's like being a prisoner: autonomy removed, a litany of faceless and uncaring staff, at the mercy of these people for your care, medication, meals. It would be bearable if I felt that these people were caring and efficient and capable, but that's not the prevailing culture on NHS wards, is it?

I think people need to be penalised for abusing ambulances and missing appointments, but I know it will never happen.

Although I can't deny that we are fortunate to have free healthcare, and there are plenty of staff that are professional and wonderful and compassionate, the bad FAR outweighs the good.

I work in the NHS. Agree with the other posters saying having a private health system doesn't eliminate problems of poor care or management. The consultant who sees you privately is very likely to be the same one you would see on the NHS. if you are an in patient private hospitals actually have less cover out of hours and at weekends & are less able to manage if you are very sick. When I worked in one hospital the communication (which everyone complains about within the NHS) was terrible for the private patients.
I agree the NHS has its issues but I fail to see how private healthcare magically resolves them all!

Why is any criticism of the NHS always turned into "well its better than private health care". At best that argument is akin to saying being punched in the face is better than being kicked in the crotch and at worse it is a tactic to shut down any criticism or sensible debate about the options.

Another thing that boils my blood is the foreign staff, not all, that Come over and can neither speak our language or have the appropriate qualifications to do the job! But I think that is a lot to do with how difficult it is being made to both get into uni and to complete a degree, when I did my first year or training as an adult nurse it was all about the law and paperwork for a whole year! No fundamental care or patient contact no wonder so many are put off training In the field now

Sea of love - I agree, being a patient is akin to being a prisoner. After my c section the care I received was shocking, and I was very I'll. I'm lucky to be alive! However, by contrast the care for the twins in NICU was excellent. Thank god we all made it out of there alive!

I read an article that compared US to Canada's health care system and they found the US 15% more bureaucratic and thereby costly due the fact you have all these different companies providing healthcare.

Addictedtocustardcreams Yes I agree with you, problems wouldn't be solved by private healthcare companies and I believe in the concept of universal free healthcare.

But for me the issue is that there is a lack of accountability and responsibility within the NHS at the moment and poor care isn't dealt with until it goes waaaaaay to far.

Look at Mid-Staffs, people who whistleblew about that are being hounded to this day by people who will not accept any criticism of the NHS. But I think that sort of attitude is self defeating. By refusing to look at where the NHS can be better we refuse to improve it. And when we don't improve it and allow poor care to continue we give ammunition to those who would like to see the NHS done away with.

Personally I think there are layers and layers of expensive management and 'project' workers who can be done away with without patient care being compromised one jot. And these jobs have been protected for years because if you criticize them people think you are criticizing nurses and care workers on the front line.

As far as I'm concerned, the NHS should technically be a wonderful thing, but as PPs have said, it's overstretched and underfunded.

I'm a MH services user, have been for over 15 years, and I've never seen the same psychiatrist for more than 2 appointments because they keep moving on to private practice. I can't afford that kind of treatment.

My current NHS psychiatrist is a consultant and absolutely wonderful. I'm just wondering when he's going to move on too.

I agree with those saying you can be grateful for the NHS whilst still recognising it has a lot of problems.

I don't think there's an easy solution. People always point to the healthcare systems in other countries which are supposedly better than ours, but they're not perfect either. The simple fact is that providing a healthcare system which works for 60 million+ people is quite a challenge.

I do know that if my child wanted to be a nurse or other healthcare worker in the NHS, I would encourage them to think very carefully about it. Not because healthcare workers don't do an amazing job, but because they seem to be so overworked, underpaid and criticised at every turn.

I think if NHS staff are not treated with the respect they deserve (not just by their management and the government, but also by the media, the patients and the general public) we shouldn't be too surprised when it becomes hard to find skilled, caring people who want to do the jobs.

Yanbu.

The treatment for the elderly patients is appalling.

My df went into hospital in June after he broke his leg. He had a simple op to put a rod in it. They put the wrong size metal work into his leg. After infection, after infection, the metal work was taken out. His infection was treated, and his leg is still broken.
It is now 3" shorter than the other, he cannot walk, and is bed bound.
This was man who was pretty active for Someone who's in their late 70's.
How anyone can think this is acceptable is beyond me

Providing healthcare for a nation is never going to be easy, cheap or without controversy. But I don't recognise a lot of the criticisms levied at it. I am massively affected by the NHS. I was diagnosed with an awful disabling condition at 19 which has meant I have been an outpatient for over 16 years with continual medication & monitoring, I've also had a baby and a traumatic miscarriage. I also met and married a doctor (through friends not my condition) who is employed by them.
There are fabulous and hardworking staff and some not so great staff (many more of the former than the latter in an absolutely massive workforce)
Staff and the system is under huge pressures from many directions and politics point scoring and continual management reorganisations don't help.
I for one am very grateful for the the life changing effect the NHS has had on my on my health and although I don't appreciate the long stressful hours my husband puts in I know that his patients appreciate them.

My wife works in the NHS, I listen daily to tales of non cooperation, mal practice, bullying, lack of accountability, nepotism, on and on... How many ops are cancelled due to something as simple as staff giving patients toast ffs, how much money is wasted by staff not replenishing drug stores when they are low(basic stock check) instead of saying "I'm off home or it's not my list, job etc"..

Its funny how when the CQC team are imminent and are on site, everyone suddenly turns into model staff..

I wouldn't say it was "crap" but it is highly variable. My uncle had the best possible treatment before he died, my dad had awful "treatment" before he died. My mum now has MH issues but the bureaucracy surrounding her care has been nothing short of incompetent (I hesitate to use that word but I can find no other). Kids were born in an NHS hospital with very different experiences as a parent.

It is absolutely not free as we all pay through taxation. Having worked in a variety of countries (mainly in Europe but also the US) their systems are different but the standard of care is generally much higher. Yes, you pay into an insurance fund but this is ring-fenced for healthcare and does not disappear into the black hole of general taxation. For those not in work etc the government picks up the premium. Personally I would rather have a lower tax and then choose to spend my money on healthcare than having no control over it and then watching those idiots in Westminster waste it. These systems take politics out of healthcare and it purely becomes a service.

My recent experinces have been fantastic. I dread to think how much the care that DS has had would have cost in a private system!

He needed a ct scan recently, the local hopsital tried but as he is only 5 he was too scared to sit still. We were reffered to the children's hospital who booked a scan under general but as they knew we had a different appointment there a few weeks before booked a ct scan for that day to try and get it without needing the GA but without us wasting a trip.

My son aged 8 had sceptic tonsilitus and his treatment at Sheffield Children's Hospital was outstanding. I think once treatment is accessed care is fantastic it is the waiting...

We're lucky to have the NHS. My daughter was diagnosed two weeks ago with a rare form of epilepsy, she was seen and diagnosed on day 1 by one of the top neurologists in the country, today she's had a GA for her MRI scan.

The NHS can't cope with the burden of chronic illnesses of an ageing population and exacerbated by poor lifestyle choices.

The NHS will stop being 'crap'* when people stop abusing it. How many times does it need to be said, when people stop turning up at their GP or A&E with a bloody cold and actually do turn up for their appointments then we'll see waiting times come down hugely and a more efficient service.

Stop blaming and start taking some responsibility ffs!

• I don't believe the NHS is crap at all, I for one am extremely grateful for it.