to think the NHS is a bit crap

[eyebags63]

And because it is treated almost as a kind of religion nobody is allowed to say anything negative about it at all. And actually just because it is "free" (a mere 110bn a year) doesn't mean we should be eternally grateful for bad treatment.

My experiences are of elderly relatives being mistreated in hospital, non-existent services in some areas, screw-ups, buck passing, treatment delays, being treated as a number with no dignity or privacy, a significant number of staff that appear not to care one little bit. I could go on.

In other health systems people can get referred and treated within days or weeks. Here we accept that waiting for months on end in pain is normal. We accept exhausted staff, lack of access, dirty hospitals, ambulances queuing outside hospitals and restricted treatment resources.

Yes it is "free at the point of use", but isn't that half of the problem? Walk into any GP surgery or A&E and you can witness so many abuses of the system. On the other hand genuine patients are often seem to be treated as a nuisance.

I'm not saying the NHS should be scrapped but surely it is about time we at least looked at different ways of doing things.

Another day, another NHS bashing thread
Because the private sector is sooooooo fucking fantastic. The trains, the energy firms, etc etc. If something serious happened in a private hospital, they'd have you down the local NHS one pretty damn sharpish.

I love the NHS. It saved my life many times as an asthmatic child. It saved the life of my son at his birth. It saved my life again by providing me with free daily medication for a condition that means I will be taking that medication until I die. If I was in the USA, I wouldn't be taking that. I couldn't afford it, and I wouldn't be able to work or have a quality of life as a result.

I am frustrated sometimes by missed appointments and lack of free appointments. Tough. I thank my lucky stars I don't have to pay for the times i've gone to A&E with severe allergic reactions, with my son's head wound, with my daughters broken fingers. The fact that I was born at all to a diabetes I mother in 1971 is alone due to the NHS. The fact that she's still alive is as well. The fact that my husbands congenital condition was spotted and treated.

People need to stop whining and start supporting. Start fighting for it: when it's gone you really will bloody moan.

Very true MrsDeVere. Just because the private hospitals put a nurse in a silly hat, doesn't mean they are any different to a NHS nurse. To be honest, on a typical private ward you might well get less nurses, to keep the costs down.
Private hospitals cherry pick the easy, profitable stuff.

I work for the NHS and I'm sick of the service being slated. As a nurse your constantly hearing about the crap shitty service we are providing. Does anyone actually stop for a moment to think how difficult it is to work for the NHS? We do long shifts, only last week I worked a 15 hour shift due to staff shortages and staff sickness. We get paid shit wages, we are on the frontline doing all the hard work, we have so many patients to get thru on a daily basis, we get abuse hurled at us on a regular basis from patients and their relatives, not only do we have our nursing duties but we now have domestic duties piled on top too as they won't pay for more domestic staff. We are constantly being pressurised into making sure there are no breachers so therefor have very limited time with patients. It's shitty that there are some nurses out there that maybe don't care as much as they should but don't tar us all with the same brush!

Ah, but MY anecdotal evidence is important. And meaningful, even though it doesn't come from Brigadier Bah in the home counties relating his anecdotal evidence to the Fail or Torygraph....

My nearest hospital is now Hinchingbrooke. I have many friends who work there. They are all depressed and cross. They're still fantastic nurses and doctors and midwives, but the pressure they are under, with tightening funds, is just daft. And the private firm itself has just thrown its hand up in defeat.

I'm a nurse. I know loads of nurses, and they are all demoralised by ever increasing demands on their time with no support, or vacancies being filled. They are choosing retirement or less stressful jobs elsewhere.
What are you going to do without them?

One of my very good friends trained as a midwife WAY back. She left after a while, trained to be a teacher. Left as that got to be crazy (I'm a teacher too!), then went back to midwifery after a refresher course. Staggered by the crapness, tried teaching again, collapsed.

Our public sector is depleting rapidly. I know 5 teachers who are leaving after only 6 years or less in the job and 3 nurses who are seeking alternative employment. Shocking.

The NHS recently saved my life. YABVVVVU.

I agree with the OP. If anyone dares make any suggestion about improvements all the left wingers come out saying no one should pay anything! Yet as a PP said there are plenty beating each other up in the aisles of Asda during sale time to get a 2nd or probably 3rd tv yet tell them they might have to pay £5 to see a GP or be fined if they cannot be bothered to turn up and some are up in arms!

Something needs to change and we all need to take personal responsibility when we use the NHS otherwise the abuse continues...

But that can't be true, phlebasconsidered!
I've read on here that we public servants are carried around on thrones by unemployed private sector workers, before we retire at the age of 30 to sit on a giant pile of money and diamonds that we haven't contributed to.

Don't look at the private sector - it's no less stressful. And there are no final salary pensions. I don't think anywhere is great now. The golden years have gone and won't return...

I don't think any of the "leftwingers" are saying people shouldn't pay for missed appointments. I think that's fair. Anyone abusing NHS staff should get a fine as well, and i'd include ambulance people in that too.

I'm also happy to forgo the "free" prescription I get for anything other than the daily medication I HAVE to take. I'd be willing to do that to save the NHS from stealth privatisation, and I think most people would be, left or right wing.

What most people resnt is the NHS being a political football and potential money and property grab for the Tories.

Hillingdon, I hate to say this about another poster, but you're an idiot. If you charge for GP and hospital visits, the old, poor and vulnerable won't go. I work with such a client group. It's hard enough to get them to see the GP when they need to, if they are charged they will not seek help. They will become very unwell then, and will end up in hospital and cost a lot more. That anecdote about something you've seen on the telly? That's not real life.

As an example, what ages for police officers and teachers retire at? It's different in the private sector. If anyone has a cushy well paid 9-5 role do lets us all know....

Random: PMSL. My pension pile.......like a little molehill of broken dreams.
My throne of Sats marking and golden ruler of target measurement.

Still, at least i got to hear all the local MP's fudging their times tables and worming their way out of questions this morning on the radio.

My dd2 is upstairs asleep in her bed. 3.5 years ago she wasn't breathing and nhs staff saved her life.

A friend of mine has a dd with a rare brain disorder who has had 4 major brain ops in 6 month. In America a child with the same problem will die in the next 2 months as the family cannot afford the 200k needed for treatment. The nhs is amazing!

I work in a hospital and it is full of the most dedicated staff any company could dream of. It is also the biggest employer in the uk so yes, sometimes it doesn't go right. 80 percent of the hospitals budget goes on 4 per cent of the population ( the elderly).

We could have more staff but that old mean ni payments going up.

Police, ambulance crews and fire fighters need to retire early. They have very active roles. Do you want a 60 year old fireman coming to fetch you from a burning building? It's not ideal. Ambulance crews tend to have chronically bad backs after a few years of picking people up off the floor. It's not like sitting in an office scratching your arse, or entertaining clients for a living.

67

Hillingdon:, 60 or 65 depending on when you started. Soon to rise again for newer recruits.

Prior to teaching I worked as a city consultant, earnt roughly 2.5 times more, plus bonuses, and worked approximately the same hours, that is, 7.30 / 8ish until the job was done. Difference was, I got paid overtime in the private sector. Foolishly, I was too young and idiotic to put much into a pension pot. It's not a case of "Oh my job is so hard, so I must make sure EVERYONE has a shit time." I am sure there are lots of people at the top of Local counils raking it in being tossers, just as there are lots of people on zero hour contracts being abused. Surely the point is to try to improve things for the majority of people?

And I agree with Random re charging for appointments. My nan has to be dragged to the GP as it is, as does my MIL. She can be at deaths door saying "I'm fine, i don't want to bother them..." Not to mention the vulnerbale from many other sectors who slip through so many nets.

Christ Caronaim, I best check my TPS email again.... (sobs to self at the thought of teaching heavily increased times tables to 100X to 5 year olds at 67...)

Random, just because I don't agree with you doesn't make me an idiot! My local GP surgery is full of old people the very people you claim won't go. My DM was recently is hospital. Her ward was a general ward but 90% well over 75.

Not all old people are poor and not able to decide whether they need care or not. There is another thread stating that OAPs shouldnt all get the fuel allowance. There is a doctor on this thread stating the system is being abused. So we can take bus passes away and fuel allowances but God forbid anyone needs to pay something small for their care.

Are you going to call him an idiot and claim he doesn't know what he is talking about!

I know it was half a day. But she's still being paid a whacking salary for it.

Personally I don't have a problem with female GPs working part time, I've had some very good care from the job share female doctors at my practice.

What I do have a problem with is people being paid very well to do a job then moaning about it. If someone in the private sector in £100k job working 60 hours a week decided they wanted to cut back to 30 hours and have half their salary 99 times out of 100 they'd be laughed out of the building, if you're on a salary that level you are taking on a significant amount of responsibility which means you are critical to the business and need to be available all the time.

Personally I think it's great that GPs, female GPs in particular can cut back their hours and work part time. I wouldn't like to see less female GPs in the profession. But for someone to get that level of salary, be allowed to cut their hours and then moan about hard done by they are? No, sorry, doesn't wash.

And as for people leaving the public sector because it's too tough. I've worked in education (private and state), the NHS, banking, recruitment and manufacturing and people in the public sector don't know they're born.

Union rep? You must be joking. Long term sick? Madness. You'll be fired as soon as possible. Flexi leave? Don't be silly. Pay rise? Never. Go on strike if you don't like your terms? Unthinkable. Decent pension scheme? Hahaha. Job security? lol.

Public sector staff work 9 years less and earn 30% more than private sector staff. For women the sector is much more flexible around family life. And training and prospects are normally better.

I really do wonder why some people in the public sector don't get it that they piss off people in the private sector when they moan.