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Original poster

To suggest immunisations should be a legal requirement?

595 replies

rednailsredheart · 29/01/2015 10:44

Look at it like this:

Wearing seatbelts it purely a safety issue. It's also a legal requirement in the UK to protect car passengers.

So why is immunisation not a legal requirement?

Likewise, drinking and driving is a criminal offence, due to the danger to the passengers and other drivers/people around you.

But deliberately choosing to let your child become a carrier of a totally preventable disease, infecting people around them (including those too young for immunisations), is totally fine? If someone doesn't vaccinate their child, then the child subsequently becomes gravely ill, why aren't the parents charged with neglect?

Makes me think of this article

ONION

OP posts:
Stratter5 · 05/02/2015 13:14

I really don't understand the "well, only a small percentage of people will be killed/maimed by x disease so it's actually kind of harmless

Exactly, it's so ducking hypocritical.

"I really don't understand the "well, only a small percentage of people will be killed/maimed by x vaccine, so it's actually kind of harmless"

Never hear an anti-vaxxer agree with that one, do you Hmm

Stratter5 · 05/02/2015 13:42

Sloppy C&Ping, should read,

"well, only a small percentage of people will be killed/maimed by x vaccine so it's actually kind of harmless"

bumbleymummy · 05/02/2015 13:56

Hakluyt - where have I said that I don't vaccinate? But no, I wouldn't get the TB vaccine because a) it's ineffective, b) there are effective prophylactic treatments which can be given c) I had a terrible reaction to the BCG as a child and I wouldn't want to put my child through something like that when it doesn't work! If I was genuinely concerned about the risk of my children getting TB I would remove them from school.

Leedy, I'm only saying it because people tend to think that catching the disease = 100% chance of death/disability. No one has said "only a small percentage of people will be killed/maimed by x disease so it's actually kind of harmless"

anotherdayanothersquabble · 05/02/2015 14:06

My peace and love message was lost....

Likened now to the Taliban....

Your assumptions are so wrong about people you don't know and have never met and make very little effort to understand but are quick to mock.

No, I would not vaccinate against TB.

I know how to reduce the risks of tetanus and the treatment required should a family member be unfortunate enough to get tetanus.

Hakluyt · 05/02/2015 14:12

Are you saying that you would rather your child got tetanus than an anti tetanus shot?

leedy · 05/02/2015 14:14

"because people tend to think that catching the disease = 100% chance of death/disability"

I don't think anyone actually thinks that, do they?

StarlingMurmuration · 05/02/2015 14:14

anotherday, how do you reduce the risks of tetanus and treat it safely?

leedy · 05/02/2015 14:17

" No one has said "only a small percentage of people will be killed/maimed by x disease so it's actually kind of harmless""

You didn't say exactly that, but you did seem to be saying it as an argument against the need for polio immunization/why anyone should fear a polio outbreak, which I thought was ... weird.

QueenTilly · 05/02/2015 14:18

But no, I wouldn't get the TB vaccine because a) it's ineffective, b) there are effective prophylactic treatments which can be given

Effective prophylactics? Well, depends how you define "effective" I guess.

www.buzzfeed.com/natalieshure/you-never-think-about-tuberculosis-until-you-lose-two-years#.hjx3Rxjn2

StarlingMurmuration · 05/02/2015 14:21

I ask because from what I have read, aside from prophylactic immunisation following exposure, the treatment mostly consist of intravenous tranquillisers and metals, tracheotomy and ventilation for up to six weeks and tube feeding of a high protein and high calorie diet. Is that how you'd treat your child? In a home setting perhaps? I can only imagine it would be pretty expensive. Would you want the NHS to contribute?

Nocturne123 · 05/02/2015 14:21

I have a lot of faith in the medical profession here and in vaccinations which are IMO a bloody great invention .

I'm just glad I've immunised my kids . I agree with the op. Pity it's not possible

leedy · 05/02/2015 14:24

When my grandmother was young she was told to take up smoking as a TB prophylactic....

StarlingMurmuration · 05/02/2015 14:26

And what about rabies? Posters who wouldn't vaccinate their children, would you have them vaccinated against rabies if they were bitten by a rabid dog? I believe it's a painful and unpleasant injection but surely better than the alternative.

fatlazymummy · 05/02/2015 14:26

I don't agree that vaccinations should be compulsory ,and I'm a very strong supporter of the vaccination programme. I do think it should be very strongly encouraged though.
Having said that, if rates do fall to dangerously low rates then I can see steps being taken along those lines, perhaps in the form of children being excluded from nursery/preschools ,etc. I'm sure many childminders would have an opinion on taking unvaccinated children as well. (Sorry haven't got time to read 21 pages).

QueenTilly · 05/02/2015 14:30

Treatment for TB is definitely more effective than they were, Leedy! Just a pity their effectiveness now depends on which strain you contract, eh.

The idea of my son or daughter having to suffer through the treatment for drug-resistant TB is so so horrifying and frightening. Sad

bumbleymummy · 05/02/2015 14:34

leedy, it's quite often presented that way: "If you don't vaccinate your child will get polio AND DIE"

I didn't say it as an argument against vaccination or that no one should fear an outbreak. Just making sure people were aware of the facts.

QueenTilly - that's treatment for TB (and a highly resistant strain at that) I was talking about preventative measures.

Starling, she may be referring to proper wound care. Tetanus cases reduced significantly when people became aware of how to clean and dress wounds properly (including better birthing practices).

Starling, we don't have rabies in the UK so you may not get a big response to that question.

StarlingMurmuration · 05/02/2015 14:37

It's true that we don't have rabies in the UK, but people go on holiday to countries with rabies all the time, so it's not that ridiculous a question.

Hakluyt · 05/02/2015 14:39

So in my case of a muck fork to the foot, you would rely on proper wound care to ward off tetanus? And what sort of treatment would you recommend if tetanus did ensue?

ChoochiWoo · 05/02/2015 14:40

im always a bit Hmm about the drs that 'discredited' and 'struck off' for daring to question the tidal wave.

leedy · 05/02/2015 14:48

"If you don't vaccinate your child will get polio AND DIE"

I don't think it is presented that way, though, or wasn't to me. More "if you don't vaccinate your child could get polio and then might die", which is pretty factually accurate.

Regardless, if you don't think "only a small percentage of people infected with polio will die/be paralyzed" is an argument against vaccination/reason not to fear an outbreak, what is your point, exactly? Why do people need to be "aware of the facts" (which a lot of people are already aware of)? If you're not using it as an anti-vax argument, why do you think it's so important that people know that it's "not so bad"?

Hakluyt · 05/02/2015 14:57

im always a bit hmm about the drs that 'discredited' and 'struck off' for daring to question the tidal wave."

But they aren't. They are discredited and struck off for doing flawed unethical research, spreading it in the Media and in some cases, making money out of the resultant parental worry

bumbleymummy · 05/02/2015 15:16

Hakluyt - are you asking me? IIRC treatment for tetanus is antibiotics. The wound would need to be properly cleaned, any dead tissue would need to be cut away and then it needs to be dressed. I think they tend to give antibiotics prophylactically now for wounds that may be at risk of tetanus. I think new guidelines for tetanus are that you can only have so many vaccines in a lifetime. (5?6? Need to check)

Leedy,Many people aren't actually aware of them. I've been on enough of these threads to know that.

Hakluyt - Wakefield wasn't the only person involved in that study or the only one present at that press conference. What 'flaws' are you talking about?

leedy · 05/02/2015 15:24

"Leedy,Many people aren't actually aware of them."

That is as may be, but why do you think it's SO VERY IMPORTANT that they know THE FACTS that polio isn't as dangerous as they think it is, when it's still actually quite dangerous? Presumably you think people should vaccinate against it anyway - or do you?

Hakluyt · 05/02/2015 15:26

Bumbley, the Wakefield thing has been gone over so many times I don't think it's worth doing it again. I didn't mention any names- I just said that people are not discredited and struck off simply for "questioning the tidal wave"

I am [shocked] that people think they can prevent and treat tetanus and would rather chance having to do that than let their child have a tetanus shot..........

bumbleymummy · 05/02/2015 15:34

Why are you even asking that leedy? Do you think people shouldn't be given accurate information about diseases?

Hakluyt, It really hasn't ever been that big a killer compared to other diseases and when antibiotics came along, prognosis obviously improved. It's definitely worth reading about if you're interested.

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