to think maybe we should just abolish state education altogether

[Caronaim]

Having left teaching after 20 years, I can look back at it a bit more objectively now I am out of it.

It is a total and utter disaster zone.

The children who do well are the ones who are supported at home, if they don't get that, nothing that happens in school will compensate.

much of what happens in schools is assessment rather than teaching, and teachers spend more time recording the results of assessments than they do even doing the assessing.

Records are often not even true, you have to cook so much of it. Records are extensive, but much of what I spent my working life recording has never been read back, either by myself or anyone else.

I ended up working up to 18-20 hours a day, of which 2-3 hours max was actually educationally beneficial.

Some children behave well, but can't learn because other children whos parents don't care about education, behave badly.

So how about we close all state schools, and give parents the money in the form of education vouchers instead. parents could buy resources, or pay for tutoring, or club together to hire a classroom, or apply to have their vouchers redeemed into actual money to allow a parent to stop work to home educate, with certain conditions.

more people would be able to afford private school, and more private schools would open.

parents who encourage their children to behave badly at school would have to deal with that behaviour at home.

Children who do well at school would probably do even better at home, and children who do badly wouldn't do any worse.

The country would save vast amounts of money towards paying off the national debt.

I disagree. I'm a teacher. My parents didn't do homework/spellings/times tables with me as a child and I was fine. Even managed to go to a RG university.

mmgrish I wonder what generation you were...and what your school was like, I am born in late 70's a time when common for the rudiments to be dropped in face of trendy teaching...

whereas my parents who were in supposedly poorer time, area...had fantastic basics.

I love SATS (don't understand them, but I love them)

I love the national curriculum.

I love league tables.

My son is eight. He can use apostrophes and knows his tables. When I was his age two thirds of my class couldn't write their names. I could, but only because my parents taught me. I was a victim of 'learning through play' and it fucked over my early educational experience. I still gained a scholarship to a private school but didn't go. The Headmaster wouldn't sign the papers as I was a girl.

Let's move on to secondary. I am old enough to have done O levels. Except you had to stay on an extra year to do O levels in this particular school. Can you imagine a situation now where the entire fifth form equivalent got no GCSEs because they were all deferred a year? I moved secondary schools at the end of what was the old third year. I had done no biology, no chemistry, no geography or RE and the only reason I had any grasp of grammar is the English teacher had sent home a text book that included it when I had glandular fever.

Thankfully the last few years of my education meant that I was able to sit exams. It was a former grammar school and despite the climate then was still managing to keep some education going.

I can understand the frustration at the targets and the paperwork, but to me those bits of paper protect the children and give them a better chance. Now there is a far greater chance of children escaping poor home environments and having the protection of going to school. School is a great chance to spot neglect and support vulnerable families. I am not saying it is without fault, but it is a lot better now than it was when I was young.

Interesting post Lisa, I am still amazed my 7 year old is being taught grammar and maths and so on, and gets it and is learning it.
Buts sats are going now, and I personally have only just got hang of them, their quirks and how teachers inflate grades.....which is something you build into your valuation.

But thats all being swept away now.

I feel so sad that this is happening OP. I left school in 1986 after receiving a terrible education at two awful rubbishy comprehensives. The low level disruption and bullying from disinterested pupils affected things greatly and I didn't achieve much.

It's awful to hear that this is still going on education is such a valuable thing and the general population needs to learn how to value it. I don't think this will happen any time soon though.

KnittedJimmyChoos ds is currently taught about all sorts of stuff that I was lucky to reach at secondary school. He is doing stuff I had to sort of just pick up or learn by myself.

Another example, ds has appalling handwriting, I mean, truly appalling. Or he did. The school and he worked and targets were set and now his writing can actually be read.

I was taught how to form separate letters and got left to get on with it. I actually taught myself to write a proper script when I was sixteen and trying all the tricks I could to pass my A levels, including legible writing.

My understanding is that writing is a part of the system that is marked, and so it is worked on - and I envy ds his basic, primary education. If SATS are going, I truly hope that there is something there that will say that a child will get the basic, competent teaching that makes all the difference.

Free decent education is the foundation of any functioning democratic society

This

The low level disruption and bullying from disinterested pupils affected things greatly and I didn't achieve much the problem is it only takes one to ruin it for the whole class.

It has such dramatic effect.

I was born in the late 70s too. My primary school was pretty average and my secondary was rubbish. I think I helped myself by being a keen reader.

YABVU with out state school my children would have no education, I just wouldn't be able to afford it.

We value education (I used to teach). Ds exhibited very challenging behaviour in his mainstream school. He now doesn't in his specialist school but that costs tens of thousands a year and there are many other children who need a similar education but don't get it. Everything is about what is cheapest in the short term.

I'm not surprised you couldn't cope with teaching if you only slept 2 hours a night, OP.

I agree that it was the right decision to change career. You seem completely burned out.

the problem is it only takes one to ruin it for the whole class. It has such dramatic effect

This is where private schools have a distinct advantage. They don't have to deal with the disruptive pupil, they simply ask them to leave.

depends on the private school hamish.

disneymum

YABVU with out state school my children would have no education, I just wouldn't be able to afford it.

But that response supposes that the current system would be abolished and nothing put in its place.

What about a voucher scheme? We each get a voucher to the value of 'X' thousand pounds, to spend on whichever school we wish. If you can top up, then do so.

As I said earlier, we currently have a dishonestly selective system wherein the very wealthy can buy the houses near the good schools. Far better we bring in more honest selection and enable bright kids from poor backgrounds to reach a potential that at present is only available to the very wealthy.

Again, without examining the harder, longer-term issues, we will never get a system that enables, nurtures and stretches everyone.

SATs aren't going - there just aren't levels reported at the end of them.

For all the state education system's faults, I don't believe formally teaching children is within the capabilities of all parents. We have a KS1 child at our school whose parents are not well educated, know that, and are desperate for her to have the opportunities that they missed out on. They simply wouldn't be able to support her in the way they want.

I agree with the poster who said schools need a period of time free from governmental interference - let the new Curriculum, life without levels etc embed. And I would eradicate Ofsted in favour of cluster schools supporting each other, both critically and in celebration.

As an add-on to this post, our school gets in the region of £2700 per pupil (Midlands)

OP, I don't think your solution would work, but I certainly agree that there are major problems with the state education system.

My DD is in a very good school, and is mostly happy. However, I hear daily tales of disruption by the same four or five students ( usually boys) who play up for attention, wreck lessons and spoil it for those who are trying to learn.

She certainly feels, as does her friends, that these kids are pandered to, given rewards for simply behaving appropriately when everyone else is expected to as a matter of course.
From speaking to friends who have seconday school children in other schools, this is sadly not the exception but the rule!

She certainly feels, as does her friends, that these kids are pandered to, given rewards for simply behaving appropriately when everyone else is expected to as a matter of course.

The squeaky wheel gets the oil! Alas.

The non-squeaky wheel doesn't need the oil, surely?

Even with a voucher scheme I doubt they would give enough for private school and I wouldn't be able to top up, as I said I don't have the money.