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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think maybe we should just abolish state education altogether

120 replies

Caronaim · 28/01/2015 20:58

Having left teaching after 20 years, I can look back at it a bit more objectively now I am out of it.

It is a total and utter disaster zone.

The children who do well are the ones who are supported at home, if they don't get that, nothing that happens in school will compensate.

much of what happens in schools is assessment rather than teaching, and teachers spend more time recording the results of assessments than they do even doing the assessing.

Records are often not even true, you have to cook so much of it. Records are extensive, but much of what I spent my working life recording has never been read back, either by myself or anyone else.

I ended up working up to 18-20 hours a day, of which 2-3 hours max was actually educationally beneficial.

Some children behave well, but can't learn because other children whos parents don't care about education, behave badly.

So how about we close all state schools, and give parents the money in the form of education vouchers instead. parents could buy resources, or pay for tutoring, or club together to hire a classroom, or apply to have their vouchers redeemed into actual money to allow a parent to stop work to home educate, with certain conditions.

more people would be able to afford private school, and more private schools would open.

parents who encourage their children to behave badly at school would have to deal with that behaviour at home.

Children who do well at school would probably do even better at home, and children who do badly wouldn't do any worse.

The country would save vast amounts of money towards paying off the national debt.

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Turquoiseisblue · 28/01/2015 21:18

Whilst I'm fairly pro private school YABU. In my experience private schools pretty much only have children whose parents support them extensively. That makes for a good environment and good results. However, do you think that those parents who are already are not prepared/able to do all the reading at home and support will really club together to hire classrooms or home educate? I think it would make the situation worse for those children not better. Really abolishing the private schools would be better though I'm a hypocrite as mine may well go private

Caronaim · 28/01/2015 21:22

Actually 18-20 hours a day is not unusual, actually, working straight through the night on consecutive nights is not unusual, this is why I left! I didn't take up my unions offer to take the school to court, because it isn't the school that is causing the problems, like I said, it is ofsted.

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lljkk · 28/01/2015 21:22

Wobblyweebles needs to say what country she's in.

DoraGora · 28/01/2015 21:23

Two truths are home support combined with a value of education and the disruptiveness of some pupils. But, many schools can and do find ways to deal with the latter and encourage or recognise the former.

Caronaim · 28/01/2015 21:23

Fabulous 46, who said I couldn't deal with challenging behaviour? I excelled at that.

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morethanpotatoprints · 28/01/2015 21:25

We are unlikely to ever use the state system again, but it should still exist for those who want/need it for their kids.
As well as education it is cheap childcare and for some its their only chance of gaining socialisation, discipline and socialising with others.

MigGril · 28/01/2015 21:27

I agree that something has gone wrong. When I left school national curriculum had only just come in and out school had had its very first ofsted inspection. I'm not that old and I'm still not sure why they thought they needed to bring in all this red tape.
Now they are opening a new high school near us and they seem to want to micro manage the kids work to ask OTT.
Don't scrap the whole system but maybe cutout a lot of unnecessary red tape.

DoraGora · 28/01/2015 21:27

Many state schools are excellent. There is a difficulty with anyone lumping all together. Remember super-selective grammars, anyone? They still exist.

LynetteScavo · 28/01/2015 21:28

I imagine the unemployed teachers would set up tutoring in the empty schools.

Blueblueblueblue · 28/01/2015 21:29

Why on earth do you think that across the board private education would mean the. Holden whose parents don't teach them to behave will have to stay at home????

Those with money will pay, and their children will continue to disrupt classes. You weren't under the impression that all privately educated children were little darlings were you OP?

DoraGora · 28/01/2015 21:31

I don't think it's the tutoring that would be expensive, but the maintenance of the building. The state would have to fund that.

I see a circle appearing!

LynetteScavo · 28/01/2015 21:32

It's not just cheap child care, it's free childcare. I need childcare in one place from 8am to 4.30pm 5 says a week. School is absolutely brilliant in providing this.

Caronaim · 28/01/2015 21:32

No of course not, I've been in private schools. the difference is they can be asked to leave.

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SnapeChat · 28/01/2015 21:33

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Caronaim · 28/01/2015 21:36

studying for another masters, while working in a lab at the minimum wage during the day. mostly data entry - it works out more per hour than teaching! And I get a family life

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queentroutoftrouts · 28/01/2015 21:38

Are you on cloud cuckoo land, seriously? This is the most bizarre thread and you are being wildly inaccurate in your statements. The only children who do well are those supported at home? You are wrong. In my dd's year a young girl had a terrible time at home having to leave her mothers due to violence and moving around the care system twice in her last 2 years of school. Guess what, she had the most admirable attitude and came out with a's and b's. We're do you actually expect the parents to spend these child care vouchers if there are no schools and they can't make up the extra cost to go private? Parents encouraging children to misbehave? I have never seen this in my life and I very much doubt anyone I have ever met would like there child to get into bother at school, that is quite a strange statement. You clearly haven't though this through very well have you?Biscuit

KnittedJimmyChoos · 28/01/2015 21:38
  • Caronaim Wed 28-Jan-15 21:16:35

what a timely outburst after this thread...

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2294317-to-be-disappointed-that-school-is-only-interested-in-getting-students-up-to-level-4-or-5-in-sats

I wonder what can be done. What to model our schools on, what works?

ghostyslovesheep · 28/01/2015 21:41

if - as you say - 'some' parents of 'badly behaved' children don't care - then why would you think it would be reasonable to let them have total control over their childs education

at least the state sector allows for some uniformity of education, standards and safeguards

parents who had money would top up the 2.5k parents who didn't care would go for the basic options - how is that making things any more equal?

the state sector is not without faults but it can and does work

KnittedJimmyChoos · 28/01/2015 21:42

Two truths are home support combined with a value of education and the disruptiveness of some pupils. But, many schools can and do find ways to deal with the latter and encourage or recognise the former

Not according to this article.

www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/11284656/Ofsted-warns-state-schools-are-failing-their-brightest-pupils.html

Sir Michael Wilshaw, the chief inspector, told how low standards were often accompanied by an “acceptance” of indiscipline, with more than 400,000 pupils now attending a secondary school where behaviour is poor.

Inspectors found “far too many instances” of pupils gossiping, calling out without permission, using mobile phones and refusing to follow instructions, adding: “Cumultively they create a hubbub of interference that makes teaching and learning difficult and sometimes impossible”.

Fabulous46 · 28/01/2015 21:43

Caronaim. Please explain why you worked 18-20 hours a day?

manicinsomniac · 28/01/2015 21:43

I teach in a private school. We've got wonderfully behaved children and disruptive ones as I imagine all schools do. Most of our disruptive children behave the way they do for a reason, be it emotional, social, psychological or developmental. And most of them have supportive, fantastic parents. I bet the disruptive proportions of most student bodies are the same. It isn't fair to suggest that they are somehow ruining state education.

I understand your frustration but I just don't think you've got the answer there.

KnittedJimmyChoos · 28/01/2015 21:45

but I just don't think you've got the answer there

I am sure she knows this - she is just frustrated and is throwing random ideas out here...

ghostyslovesheep · 28/01/2015 21:49

I am based some of the time in a school for EBD - all of the kids (5-16) are disruptive, often violent and abusive

all of them have reasons why

all of them are worth 100% effort and support - and thanks to dedicated awesome staff (I am not one of them!) they get it

all kids deserve a decent education

Caronaim · 28/01/2015 21:49

yes, exactly, KnittejimmyChoos, thank you.

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Caronaim · 28/01/2015 21:50

ghostly, of course all kids deserve an education, but they are not getting it in the UK!

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