Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To not agree to wipe off CSA arrears?

215 replies

OhSammyBoy · 28/01/2015 12:49

DS2 (9) dad has not seen him since 2010. This is his choice (dad not DS). Prior to this he only saw him 5 times in the previous couple of years.

He pays maintenance through the CSA. He left his job last year and failed to notify the CSA. Now as far as the CSA are concerned he has still been building up arrears in this time, as the assessment changes at the point of telling them your circumstances and they wont backdate.

The CSA in a rare show of actually being useful have chased up the case this week, and contacted me to ask if we have set up a private arrangement (No) and if I have received and maintenance directly (No), if I want them to chase the arrears (Yes) and if I still want them to retain the case (Yes).

They have rang DS2s dad, and obviously made him aware of this. He has now text me asking if he can ring me, as "there is a CSA issue that he needs to sort". I know he is going to ask me to wipe the arrears and close the case.

WIBU to tell him no?

In the interests of full disclosure

  • DS2 is the result of a 1 night stand.
  • His dad did not know about him for the first few years of his life (I couldn't find him - as soon as I did I told him about DS)
  • I do not need the CSA money to get by - it goes into a savings account.
OP posts:
CupidStuntSurvivor · 28/01/2015 19:31

OP, the fact that he's still getting the same amount whether working or not would make me inclined to say it's his problem. He's not actually taken a drop in income but doesn't want to pay for his child and knows that as he's not receiving money in taxable format, he could have paid less had he pulled his finger out and let the CSA know.

Original poster
OhSammyBoy · 28/01/2015 19:33

I realise b) is me being a vindictive jackass but I was irrationally angry about a sobbing child, asking me over and over again to contact his dad and apologise for whatever he'd done wrong, the that I needed to money to eat meant that it was an easy decision as opposed to dithering over it.

The dither now is reason a) has gone, so I guess that just leaves me as the spiteful cow he brands me as, hence the pondering on closing it down.

OP posts:
Oswin · 28/01/2015 19:33

Oooh poor men eh. Of course they should be able to shag about getting women pregnant with no thought of responsibility, those women can just get abortions! FFS.

Aridane · 28/01/2015 19:35

Personally, I would let it go - but I am in the minority here

lessgymbunnymoregymtortoise · 28/01/2015 19:36

I think yabu to make him pay for a child from a ONS he's not interested in. I think men should be offered an 'in or out' choice at the beginning, as women have the choice of an abortion. If they choose 'in', then they pay and see the child etc, if they choose 'out', it's as if they've had an abortion, and the child is never theirs, legally, so no contact allowed, but no financial responsibility, either. Women get a choice, if the contraception fails, but men don't, and I think that's unfair.

Viviennemary · 28/01/2015 19:37

I'd normally say yes CSA should be chased up and paid. But he didn't even know he had a child for a few years. He hasn't had a job. And you don't need the money. In your circumstances I would say just write it off. But it's up to you. You sound a bit selfish tbh.

Oswin · 28/01/2015 19:40

Why does she sound selfish? Trying to do the best by her child?!
The chose to be in her ds life.
Then decided to fuck off again. Great way to treat a child. He sounds like the selfish one.

Original poster
OhSammyBoy · 28/01/2015 19:41

gymbunny in all fairness, he was offered the choice at the first point I could contact him, and he chose in. He then dithered over and over and over and over again. Yes ill see him, no I wont, I want to be a dad, but arrghh Im not ready. He then chose in again when he started to see DS. He then pissed off. Which choice of his would count?

OP posts:
QueenBean · 28/01/2015 19:41

lessgymbunnymoregymtortoise

Totally agree

CupidStuntSurvivor · 28/01/2015 19:46

Men should be offered the choice of whether to support their offspring? You people are unreal. Cue more men not giving a crap about contraception because they can choose to decline the consequences. It's not about the man's choice, it's about the child!

ToyStory3 · 28/01/2015 19:46

I don't understand the 'if men don't want children they should wear a condom' argument. Surely that can be extended to women. If they don't want children they should use contraception, end of abortion debate.

CalleighDoodle · 28/01/2015 19:47

Op doesnt sound at all selfish. Ridic to say she does.

Id leave it to the him and the csa. If you dont need it dont worry about it and see what happens

Penguin0fMadagascar · 28/01/2015 19:47

The OP had the option of abortion, because that's a right we have in this country. If she didn't want to take it then that's fine, it's absolutely her choice, but she did make a choice not to use an option that was available to her, so she should have the full responsibility of that choice.

But why should we hold a woman to a higher standard than a man? The father had a right not to risk making a baby by not having sex - he chose not to use that option so he should take full responsibility for the consequences of his actions.

CalleighDoodle · 28/01/2015 19:49

And contraception is VERY DIFFERENT to abortion! So not an argument at all. Again ridiculous, and rather heartless.

CalleighDoodle · 28/01/2015 19:51

And how on earth is basically telling someone they should have aborted their child as how dare they expect the father to support them is unbelievable. And not at all helpful.

lessgymbunnymoregymtortoise · 28/01/2015 19:55

If he chose in, then take the money for DS. It's not a choice you can change (just like for women!)

If you think offering men a choice is heartless, then so is abortion. Women get a choice, so should men, especially in a ONS where contraception was used, otherwise sexual liberation doesn't work. I'm a feminist- I believe men and women should be equal, and neither should be 'trapped' by sex. Women get to chose whether sex=mum, men should be able to chose whether sex=dad, and not have that forced upon them by a woman. I would be horrified if a man forced a woman to parent a child they didn't want, just because they had sex.

needaholidaynow · 28/01/2015 19:55

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

lessgymbunnymoregymtortoise · 28/01/2015 19:58

I am NOT saying she should have aborted the child! NOT at all.

But she chose to continue the pregnancy, through a decision to parent, or moral belief, or whatever. The father should get that choice, too, in my opinion. I realise that isn't what the CSA system says, but that's what I consider to be ethical, if we allow women to chose to not become mothers when pregnant for any reason they like.

PtolemysNeedle · 28/01/2015 19:59

But why should we hold a woman to a higher standard than a man?

We don't hold women to a higher standard than men. It's the opposite. We accept that women can make a mistake but can choose to reject the consequences, but when a man makes the same mistake, they have no option but to pay, or spend 18 years trying to avoid paying.

The father had a right not to risk making a baby by not having sex - he chose not to use that option so he should take full responsibility for the consequences of his actions.

By that logic, we should stop single mothers getting money from the government to pay for their children, after all, they chose not to use the option of avoiding sex, therefore she should take full responsibility for the consequences of her actions.

I agree with the point that women are more affected by pregnancy, birth and child raising so they should have more choice, but the double standards and lack of equality of responsibility is something I find very uncomfortable.

lessgymbunnymoregymtortoise · 28/01/2015 19:59

But if he chose 'in', he chose 'in'. Lifetime commitment, no change of mind allowed. So he coughs up.

However, if you don't need the money, I'd probably let him off the incorrectly calculated payments, as that's unfair.

FloraFox · 28/01/2015 20:00

If his parents are supporting him, why shouldn't he support his child? I was dithering until you said that bit. There's no way you should wipe the arrears. If he's sponging off his parents now, will he ever go back to work? What if you need the money again in the future?

Original poster
OhSammyBoy · 28/01/2015 20:03

I see your point, so basically the argument is

Is the point of accepting you could become a parent at the point of sex, and if it is, why does the woman get an extra choice to not be a mum by having the option of abortion as opposed to both parties being equal.

Therefore either abortion shouldn't exist or men should get some sort of choice on parenthood too.

I don't see how it could work personally, what about the child who if his dad chooses male abortion, can never know who is father is because otherwise the man has had his choice removed / overturned etc.

OP posts:
FloraFox · 28/01/2015 20:04

Women get to chose whether sex=mum, men should be able to chose whether sex=dad

This is a false equivalence. Choosing not to be "mum" is a physical experience for a woman and having an abortion is a bodily intervention which can be very traumatic and have lasting effects. Choosing not to be "dad" involves fuck all except heartlessness and selfishness.

CalleighDoodle · 28/01/2015 20:06

He did choose in. Should i put my penis IN this roman, knowing no contraception is 100%? ... Yes i will choose IN'

Again, saying aborting a baby is the same choice as preventing pregnancy is ridiculous.

CalleighDoodle · 28/01/2015 20:07

woman not roman. That would be a different thread entirely.