To hate the idea of the new smoking bribe?

[CharleyFarleyy]

What do people who dont smoke anyway get? seems like they are going to miss out un-fairly.

Also if quitting for your and your babys health isnt incentive enough will shopping vouchers help anyway?

Sigh. The word 'misogynist' is so overused on MN.

Its not just the womans body to consider though!

Bubalou, you said:

if the mother is so fucking selfish she won't quit smoking in pregnancy unfortunately there will most likely be a long list of health problems the poor child will face in the future.

I'm sure a mum who is selfish enough to smoke throughout pregnancy isn't going to worry about healthy food, diet, exercise and not continuing to smoke around them during their childhood. hmm

So what was your point if not 'so stopping the mother smoking during pregnancy and the early months is pointless'?

Oh fuck off! Yes im woman hater. I fucking hate myself and want to go back to the times when we had no rights and was second class citizens.

you idiot.

WHY are women that are given the incentive more likely to give up?
I've explained that at least twice now. See my last reply to Bubbley.

But just because it works (or seems to) doesn't mean its right!
It does work, that's what the evidence shows and these are the best stop smoking results I have ever seen (and I take a keen interest for various reasons). That does mean it's right because currently one in ten people in the UK die an average of 10 years early because of smoking (without even touching on the miscarriages, still-births and long-term problems caused by smoking in pregnancy and SHS in the home).

"you will have blood on your hands"
for signing a petiton! who is using extreme examples now!
see above. If you sign something that will cause more deaths (or prevent the prevention of more deaths if you wish to be pedantic) you will have blood on your hands.

IMO from what ive seen, women that smoke while PG are either not arsed or heavily addicted cant stop. Thats a fair asumptions surley?
Not really, your opinion is not based on facts. Women that smoke while pregnant are overwhelmingly in a shit place and need a helping hand to put them in a position where they can cope with quitting.

OP I am totally with you. It is a disgusting abuse of taxpayer money!! If you are such an uncaring person that you would rob your unborn child of three seconds of oxygen for every puff, while filling an innocent child full of chemicals then the last thing you deserve is a damned voucher!!

In all honesty I wouldn't be surprised if the kind of people who smoke while pregnant wouldn't only spend the vouchers on something else inappropriate and harmful to the unlucky child.

Other possibility: they clearly hate smoking during pregnancy because it does known harm to the unborn baby.

As someone said before just because this incentive worked in the trial it does not make it right.

PlentyOfPubeGardens- your comment about me having blood on my hands as I am against it is totally unreasonable and rather harsh. I certainly would not have blood on my hands. It is not me who would be responsible for still births/ health problems etc in babies by mothers who spoke during pregnancy. The blood on their hands as you say is entirely their own. Not mine.

I am not saying these women and their unborn babies should just be left but I think other ways like education, helping them if they are in poor circumstances, contributing towards groups for giving up smoking etc is a much better way of doing it. They need to be motivated to give up smoking themselves and for their baby rather than by money.

Again. Even though it is simply putting it I do think it's typically a case of those already doing the 'right' thing having no reward or inventive and just do it and those who don't being rewarded.

I also agree with the point that these pregnant smokers are protrayed as always living in terrible circumstances and victims and this is not always the case. Take Stacey Solomon as an example.

If they are these reasons for smoking should be addressed and money spent on getting them out of the situation. As even if they did give up smoking and gave birth to a healthy child, it's unlikely that child will then continue to have a healthy, happy life given the mothers circumstances. If they want to change their lives and get themselves out of these situations money should not be the way to do so.

I dont want to punish women for smoking in PG, I would love to have a scheme in place that really helped them. I just dont think this is the right scheme. Even if the statistics are right and it works, I think its the wrong way to get the result.

Yes - if they are able to give up for money then they surely aren't that addicted to it and should have the strength to do it for moral reasons.

Chunderella I'm not sure the suffragists/suffragettes and other powerful women throughout history who fought for such pivotal changes such as the vote would like their work cheapened by connecting it to the right to harm unborn children.

That is to say I really want to help women that want to give up for their babies but can't.

Where as women that could give up but wont I have real problems with and wouldn't mind being fined or punished.

Obviously I know there is no way of telling between.

Does that make me a woman hater?

Chunder, only women can be pregnant, You're not 'reducing their rights' because they're a woman. You're 'reducing their rights' because they are pregnant and because the woman isn't the only one affected by her smoking. If the foetus didn't matter then why would anyone care about this at all?

Probably not MrsCs but it doesn't stop the MN feminists.

sorry, I shouldn't generalise. Some are more reasonable than others.

Glad to hear a voice of reason bumbley (grin)

Are all the people sticking up for those that have smoked in pregnancy people that have done it yourselves?

Not sure that would get an honest answer anyway. I just can't comprehend the type of person that finds it acceptable.

I think this is one of those endless conversations where on one side there are some that think one thing and others that think the opposite.

I will not be changing my opinion.

I agree with the op. It's a scandalous use of money. The nhs is on its knees already, people can't afford to eat, or heat there homes in this country with all the budget cuts but yes let's give money to selfish idiots who won't stop smoking for the health & well being of there baby. Every one knows the health implications of smoking for themselves & there unborn child.
If a person will only give up smoking to get extra cash. Then they are not responsible enough to be having a baby. This should not be happening

The nhs is on its knees already

So if this could be shown to save the NHS money, then... what?

Bubalou, I think smoking in pregnancy is rubbish. Awful. Unreasonable to me.

But I don't claim to know the motivations of the large number of women who do it. I don't lay claim to what goes on inside their heads and how different behavioural incentives work for people with different experiences, backgrounds and brains from me.

And I can put aside how it makes me feel to look at what might actually help. And in this case, that's evidence shows that women have stopped smoking well beyond giving birth. And that it could reduce pressure on the NHS. And that it could improve health outcomes.

So this one, I'm going with my head, and telling my heart that it's none of its business.

It's wasting money. You shouldn't smoke when your pregnant. You are poisoning your child, Everyone knows that. Giving people money for doing something that they should be doing anyway is ridiculous! The money could instead be used on training much needed nurses. Or extra beds.