To think the vitriol against cycling has gotten a bit much?

[BuggersMuddle]

Obviously I'm a cyclist. I'm also a car driver, motorcyclist and pedestrian, so I can genuinely see all sides of the debate.

I've cycled to work on and off for years. In the past I could recount many tales of cars pulling too close, but very few real 'incidents'. Nowadays I could recount probably a couple a week easily (none on my weekend or non-peak time training cycles ).

My cycling ability has if anything got better not worse. I have more money, so my gear is certainly better and I have more hi-vis, better lights etc. the latter of which which you would think is good but apparently a cause for complaint as well

I do commute in Edinburgh, which does have transport issues since the tram debacle, so I don't know if this is colouring my view. All I know is I used to cover 10 miles by road a day and rarely had an issue. I now cover 12 miles (usually), of which half is on cycle path and seem to be open to all kinds of a abuse & general intolerance.

Not confined to me though, more friends have started wearing cameras in the event of incidents and the online abuse on Facebook groups / local papers in the event of cycling incidents or (god forbid) cyclists complaining just beggars belief.

AIBU? Am I just unlucky, or does the general public really seem to hate cyclists as a group? Or is it just where I live?

Perhaps I should clarify as a driver I have very little beef with cyclists at all - they are other road users who I treat with caution and I acknowledge that they are more vulnerable than i am.

It's from the POV of a pedestrian that cyclists enrage me.

I am both driver and pedestrian daily.

As a (former regular now occasional) cyclist, I am quite happy to call other cyclists every name under the sun. I eventually stopped cycling to work (after 10 years of cycling in London) because of the hazards to me caused by the massive increase in cyclists around 2007 (recession plus 7/7 bombings). I could handle the buses and the cars, but other cyclists were dreadful and IME and to my detriment, many are self obsessed and dangerous. It's like being a cyclist is the wild west of road use.

The perception is that because they are "vulnerable" they will do whatever it take to get where they are going "safely" and to hell with everyone else and they feel fully justified in this.

I think men cycling in lycra should be banned . It appears to increase the testosterone levels of any male cyclist by about 1000%, transforming an environmentally friendly, health-promoting and harmless means of getting from A to B into a speedy, aggressive sport that takes no prisoners, be they car drivers, pedestrians and dogs. All cyclist must forthwith wear tweed suits and cycle clips! Hurrah!

The problem is that when people come onto forums like this and start going on about how bad cyclists are, that they are a menace, don't pay road tax, should have a license etc etc.

Whatsthat

A) why are people venting about the stress/dangers they have encountered a problem for anyone at all?

B) as far as I can see on this thread the only mention of cyclists and road tax/licence etc comes from you.

And like myself many of the people moaning about cyclists on this thread are cyclists themselves!

Also presumably if you're on foot, you're also anonymous?

Yes but you are much faster on a bike. Through the green man or red light and you are gone. Run the person over on the footpath, pick your bike up and go.

Agree with you becool. Pedestrians are the bottom of the food chain

yes re pedestrians at bottom of food chain. And just when you find some lovely car free space, say in a local park, you live in fear for your and/or your child's life with cyclists coming at you silently from every direction on paths clearly marked "no cycling".

it also seems to be another "trend" for cars to just wait until you are on the other side of the middle of the road before driving through the zebra crossing - when they should wait until you are OFF the zebra crossing. But that is another thread.

BeCool,

It's not this thread in particular, it's the build up of numerous threads here and elsewhere, and the overall attitude towards cycling it endorses. This one isn't too bad (though there is still too much tarring of "cyclists" as if we were one homogenous group).

Maybe what you've come across is particularly a London thing. But I can't say I've noticed it that much when I've been there. As a pedestrian myself a lot of the time, yes I notice cyclists doing things they shouldn't. I've been subject to abuse myself from a cyclist going along a pavement and me not jumping out of the way.

I just find it curious when the vast majority of injuries and deaths are caused by cars that there is so much anger against cyclists. From what people say about cyclists you'd think that they were more dangerous than cars.

"I just find it curious when the vast majority of injuries and deaths are caused by cars that there is so much anger against cyclists. From what people say about cyclists you'd think that they were more dangerous than cars"

Yes it is curious but I think that is because pedestrians tend to think of cyclists as being 'on the same side'. They expect car drivers to be a bit of a PITA and selfish - but cyclists are out there, in the fresh air and rain, unprotected by a big metal box, just like pedestrians. We somehow hope they'll behave better. But it seems as if some cyclists are just aggressive as car drivers (and more self-righteous ) or at least that is how they are perceived.

"I just find it curious when the vast majority of injuries and deaths are caused by cars that there is so much anger against cyclists. From what people say about cyclists you'd think that they were more dangerous than cars."

This! Of course I've seen some bad cyclist behaviour but nothing to make me think that cyclists are the greatest menace on the road and we'd all be so much safer if they weren't there.

There are loads of idiots on the road on bikes, in cars, walking etc. Also just people who sometimes make mistakes. I get nervous when I see cyclists though because I worry about hurting them. Like someone else said, I will only overtake cyclists when I'm very sure and then sometimes cars behind me are clearly getting annoyed. No big deal though, would rather that than an accident. We do get a few on rural roads round here that can cause annoying delays but there are far more HGVs going slowly causing delays. Nothing you can do but stick the radio on and wait. I do think that cycling hatred has got a bit out of control lately but probably because there's so many of them now (which is great!). I cycle too though so see it from both sides.

I think what is needed is a duty of care. If I walk round the shops with dangerous animal on a lead I owe a greater duty of care to the public than if i walk around with an ice cream.
Motorised traffic owes that same enhanced duty of care no matter how much of an arsehole the cyclist or pedestrian was.
If you run into the back of the car in front its your fault, no question. if you kill me or my family you should be prepared to prove it wasn't your fault.

I'll direct my ire at cyclists when motor vehicles stop killing almost 2000 people a year in the UK.

whats this isn't a comparative exercise. The subject muted was cyclists.

In my daily life I SEE and EXPERIENCE more direct threats to
Myself and my young children from cyclists than from cars.

I have also cycled for many years. I rarely see cyclists acting as a group apart from reclaim the streets style protests.

My experience is London based yes.

What is annoying me is this attitude that "cars are worse" as a way of shutting down complaints about cyclists.

Of course these things end up being comparative because the behaviour of different groups are linked to how the others act. As I've said it's the special attention that cyclists get that is bemusing too.

And you are wrong. You might perceive that cyclists are a greater threat but in both number and severity of threats motor vehicles are far worse.

I have no problem with cyclists on the roads, with the correct gear, who obey traffic signals like other road users.

I do have a problem with the ones who whizz along the pavements like they own them. I have a problem with the ones who use pedestrian crossings whilst still riding their bikes. I have a problem with the ones that ignore red lights if they are on the road.

My walk to work is 30 minutes. I'll see at least a handful of near misses caused by cyclists on both the road and the pavement during a usual week.

thclockstrucktwo How many cycle lanes get gritted?

Not many around here I can tell you. I currently have a 2 cracked ribs and a fabulous bruise on my arse after a nasty slip on the ice in the cycle lane. I'll be sticking to the roads during the winter from now on that's for sure.

I drive to work on a Sunday once or twice a month.
I've taken to counting the number of cyclists I have to slow down behind and then overtake giving them plenty of room. It's only about 6 miles to work & I count myself lucky if the numbers are in single figures.
But, last Sunday there must have been 50 cyclists all bunched up together riding one, two or three abreast going at 15 miles an hour for 2 - 3 miles along a 40mph country road with a few bends.
I was the second car behind them (thank god in case I had some dick behind me expecting me to overtake them all). It was absolutely impossible for any of the cars to get past them as there was nowhere to pull over in case there was suddenly a car coming in the opposite direction.
To be honest, that was pretty frustrating driving along at 15mph & I was pleased that I went left at the roundabout & they all went straight on.

Cycling and roads just don't work. Whoever thought they would is a huge Eejit.

Im sure cars were invented in the first place to give a bit of protection at a certain speed. So to put cyclists and Cars/motor vehicles together on the same roads was always going to spell disaster.

I think the problem has many facets. Firstly, I think the general public are just angrier at everything and will vent. I get quite sad when I hear folk ranting about cyclists, slow drivers, old people, immigrants, anything really. Everyone is so impatient and intolerant. Secondly, it's much easier to vent anonymously with social media so folk will blast off without thinking though that doesn't always explain the face to face confrontations.
Thirdly, there are a lot more cyclists on the road (I am one of them) so by the law of averages, there will be an increase in bad cyclists too, thus an increase in folk getting pissed off at them.
Fourthly, the vast majority of road users have no clue about the primary and secondary positions of the cyclist. They think all cyclists should ride in the gutter or use the (sometimes dangerous) cycle lanes. Better education for all road users would help. Finally, it's a British thing. We really are a fucked up nation with no sense of place or reality and a huge chip on our shoulder. No sense of live and let live or the bigger picture. Everyone just worried about their own wee bit of world.
I'm a cycling instructor. I find if I wear my hi viz vest with instructor on it, drivers give me more respect, like 'oh she must actually know what she's doing'. I always ride within the law, use a bell, have working lights, give a cheery wave or nod, shout thank you if people move out my way. No matter who or what pisses me off I try to set an example.

So let's not talk about problems caused by one group of road users because problems are also caused by other road users?
Hmmmmm. Buy that way of thinking we wouldn't talk about any problems at all.

Before letting my son on the roads I sent him on a few cyclist courses. The bike is now in the shed! He'd rather walk or take public transport.

Have read all the comments now and (donning her instructors vest) it is perfectly legal for a cyclist to cycle in the middle of a lane. Its up to other road users whether they allow themselves to be irritated by it.

Also, I mentioned about this being a British thing. When you look at many European cities, there are pedestrians, cyclists (with no helmet or hi viz), cars, trams, buses heading in all directions without nearly as much hoo haa as in this country. We, as a nation, are so intolerant of each other. I have no idea why!

I don't think it's about tolerance. I'm perfectly tolerant of people who don't act like entitled arses, whether they are on 2 feet, 2 wheels or 4 wheels.

It's about consideration.

Yup. Consideration. Why can't we be more considerate?