To think the vitriol against cycling has gotten a bit much?

[BuggersMuddle]

Obviously I'm a cyclist. I'm also a car driver, motorcyclist and pedestrian, so I can genuinely see all sides of the debate.

I've cycled to work on and off for years. In the past I could recount many tales of cars pulling too close, but very few real 'incidents'. Nowadays I could recount probably a couple a week easily (none on my weekend or non-peak time training cycles ).

My cycling ability has if anything got better not worse. I have more money, so my gear is certainly better and I have more hi-vis, better lights etc. the latter of which which you would think is good but apparently a cause for complaint as well

I do commute in Edinburgh, which does have transport issues since the tram debacle, so I don't know if this is colouring my view. All I know is I used to cover 10 miles by road a day and rarely had an issue. I now cover 12 miles (usually), of which half is on cycle path and seem to be open to all kinds of a abuse & general intolerance.

Not confined to me though, more friends have started wearing cameras in the event of incidents and the online abuse on Facebook groups / local papers in the event of cycling incidents or (god forbid) cyclists complaining just beggars belief.

AIBU? Am I just unlucky, or does the general public really seem to hate cyclists as a group? Or is it just where I live?

I live in Central London, and some of the cycling I see here is absolutely terrible. I'm not surprised so many get killed and injured. This is what I've seen in the last few weeks:

Cyclists at night, with no lights and no high viz clothing (most of them).

Cyclists ignoring traffic lights and thinking they don't apply to them - pedestrians regularly get hit and knocked down by cyclists on a pedestrian crossing near where I work. The buses stop, the cars stop, what's so special about you?

Cyclists going up a one way street the wrong way and being knocked off by a car who didn't expect to see a cyclist coming the wrong way - particularly at night, with no lights and no high viz clothing. I live on a corner of a one way street, where it joins a main road, and most days there is a cyclist in the road, with an ambulance in attendance, because they have been hit by someone turning legitimately into the road, while the cyclist has been coming up it the wrong way.

Cyclists "undertaking" the bus as it is trying to pull into a bus stop, and "beat it" to the stop. This is just insanity. The bus I was on the other day had to brake hard and very suddenly to avoid hitting a cyclist doing just this. One woman fell down the stairs and was injured, so the bus driver called an ambulance and the bus could go no further, and we all had to wait for the next bus. After giving the bus driver (who had done nothing wrong) a bit of lip, the cyclist disappeared off.

These are the inconsiderate cyclists that give them all a bad name. And people are more likely to notice these arseholes than the large number of cyclists who are safe and considerate.

I walk to work through Central London and I think cyclists round here are getting better, far fewer on pavements and jumping red lights. Although I would like to know, when cyclists are merrily whizzing along on paths in parks etc that are clearly marked 'No Cycling', does this mean they can't read or don't care?

I used to cycle to work in London and it was one of the most stressful experiences ever - mainly because of other very aggressive cyclists not obeying rules and crowding slow people like me on already busy bus lanes. XH was a very keen cyclist and one of those nobbers who used to try and race other blokes into work and then go on about how he beat someone in that day. My old boss did that too. Why . I found cyclists rude and obnoxious and there were only a few who obeyed road rules. I also have had abuse from cyclists as a pedestrian walking on a footpath! But not all cyclists are this way of course and I always leave space when I am driving.

I now live in The Netherlands where cycling is far more civiilsed and enjoyable. And an accepted and viable mode of transport. The problem is the UK is not geared up to cycling as other European countries are and there is not enough provision for it. We have a way to go to change cultural attitudes. YANBU.

I don't understand it at all. Cyclists are heroes! Out in all weathers, with no carbon emissions, getting exercise to reduce their impact on the NHS. Car drivers need to STFU and take a long hard look at themselves!

(For the record, I don't own a bike and haven't cycled since I was about 15. I do walk, though).

I am not sure the gearing-up helps, though. Cyclists in this country tend to look like they're going to a cross between a gladiatorial combat and a velodrome. I much prefer it in Amsterdam or Copenhagen, where people cycle sedately in normal clothes.

I am a pedestrian and have never cycled. I don't have a problem with cycling - I can see the benefits to it and its a green way to get around, good for your health etc. So I dont' have it in for cyclists at all.

However........ every single damn day I see appalling behaviour from cyclists. Jumping red lights, whizzing over pedestrian crossings, sometimes while giving the pedestrian a filthy look, cycling far too fast and far too aggressively,cycling at night with no lights and dressed head to toe in black. And dont' even get me started on people who cycle on pavements - when I am Ruler of the Universe, they will all be shot on sight. Its selfish and highly dangerous and bloody terrifying for pedestrians.

So in some cases the vitriol is definitely deserved. Its a shame for cyclists who are responsible and safe

Agree with samesizetoes and t3rr3gl35. For the most part, our roads are set up with cars in mind. They are not designed for cars, lorries, cyclists and horses to share the space. That is the main reason for the annoyance directed at cyclists, but there's also:

1. The twattish behaviour that puts pedestrians in danger, like jumping red lights or riding on the pavement. I get far more irritated with cyclists as a pedestrian than I ever do as a car driver.

1. The smugness of some cyclists, especially the Lycra brigade, who sneer at car drivers for being unenvironmentally-friendly, fat, unfit, or all three.

1. Cyclists who cite the highway code (we can ride two abreast, we are legitimate road users, you should leave us the same room you would a car when overtaking) but who are happy to break the rules when it suits them, such as going through red lights or using the pavement when it's more convenient.

1. Cyclists who refuse to show courtesy because "I have just as much right to be on the road as you!". Sure, you do, but why can't you move over for a few minutes if there is a queue of crawling traffic behind you? It's not giving up your rights, it's just being a decent person.

1. Refusal to use cycle paths. I understand that this is usually a very sensible choice because many cycle paths are not fit for riding on, but many car drivers DON'T know that and just see it as cyclists wanting to be difficult.

1. Slowing motorised vehicles down. As much as cyclists like to argue that their average speed is actually faster than cars (yes in a tiny area of central London, because you don't stop for red lights!) they do slow cars down. It's only a few minutes in the driver's day but it's an annoyance.

Admittedly I don't like bikes on the road. Now I know cycling is cool - it's environmentally friendly, and keeps the cyclist fit. So thumbs up for that.
But yes, if I'm being honest, they scare me with their vulnerability because they're not always that easy to see.
And let's face it, they can bring traffic to a nigh on standstill and hold everyone up. That's not so much of a problem in the city, but elsewhere you can have tailbacks of 10 cars or more, while they crawl behind a single bike, sometimes for a long time. I can't help but think "fuck off out of the way!"

Sorry . I know it's me. I know I'm the bad one.

I think really it's just the increase in road traffic that makes it worse for everyone. As a car driver I think there's more chancing it by drivers generally. More overtaking in circumstances that make other slow down, more running lights, more driving over keep clear areas. Much, much more inconsiderate parking. More getting annoyed with other road users in general. And I think this is true of pedestrains too - more likely to try crossing roads when there's trffic on them, more likely to be walking in the gutters not on the pavement, etc. I think it's largely down to the pressure on the transportation system to accomodate more users just means there is less room to be generous (and still get the same performance out of it) and that makes everyone more frustrrated.

It may also partly be down to the shared use areas that are becoming so common, they force everyone to slow down, so when there are acidents they are less liekly to be serious, but there are a lot more near misses and Ithink htat makes everyone on edge and feeling encroached upon.

If it's any consolation I hate buses just as much. They have signs on the back saying 'please let me out' which is fine by me - I agree that buses should be prioritised.
But so often they pull out then indicate, just barging into the lane while you see your life flashing before your eyes.
Wankers.

No one would ever say "bmw drivers drive like dicks, so they all deserve to have other road users put them in fear of their lives, and to potentially be really hurt". So I don't see why it's ok to justify dangerous driving towards cyclists with the same argument.

I cycle in a small city, so I don't know if that makes a difference, but I see far more cars jumping red lights than cars. But "amber gambling" is somehow ok, because drivers do it.

As an aside, OP, you say you have more high vis now - I noticed that what I wore made a huge difference to how I was treated on the roads. Yellow high viz was fine. Pink high viz meant people seemed determined to kill me. Make of that what you will.

I think a problem may arise in areas where, ironically, you have good public transport, as it means people don't drive and may not even learn. I'm not sure if this is the case in Edinburgh but certainly there are lots of people in London who never drive because they don't need to. Therefore, when they get on a bike, they really have no road sense whatsoever.

I see some really stupid cycling in London. Not just inconsiderate but downright stupid. The red light jumping is a way of life. And no, drivers really don't do it. They stop, yes they might slide through amber but they don't routinely go through red. Cyclists do. All the time. Every time I am up there. And they have no understanding of Highway Code rule 170 (mind you neither do drivers). I only go in once a week but I see much sillier cycling there than I do at home in Hampshire.

I do think all cyclists should do bikeability and I also think both sides could be a lot more considerate. If you don't understand cyclists, the book Cyclecraft is excellent for understanding why cyclists behave the way they do (eg not cycling close to the pavement/in the gutter etc). It would also help to have more cyclist awareness training for the driving test but I don't know what you do for drivers on already on the road.

I agree cyclists should be able to use empty pavements although if I were on a road and the pavement was empty, and I had cars queuing behind me, I'd move over and let them by, law or no law.

I hate cycle bells though, they just scream "get out of the way you stupid pedestrian" (even though I have equal right to be on the path I am on).

But what about runners who run on the road next to the empty pavement. I am a keen runner and I don't understand. I had one the other day who absolutely would not move onto the pavement and I couldn't get by because there were traffic islands.

And every day I see appalling behaviour from drivers too. For some reason there seems to be a belief that cyclists are worse than other modes of transport, but I've not seen any proper evidence to back it up.

Part of it may be that some of the things some cyclists do are quite flagrant (such as going through pedestrian crossings). Whereas stuff drivers do almost seems to be expected (speeding, tailgating). Having a bike in your way is annoying so that colours judgements about them.

People go on about cyclists on pavements, yet cars kill and injure far more people on pavements than bikes do. Similarly with red lights.

I've hit pedestrians twice when cycling. Both times they stepped into the road without looking.

I really don't understand Mumsnet when it comes to the road. Apparently driving at 35mph in a 60 because you're incapable of reading road conditions properly is a God-given right and anyone who overtakes is an idiot - but if you hold a car up for ooh, 2 minutes because your speed is limited by the fact that your vehicle is PROPELLED BY HUMAN POWER you basically deserve to die. WTF?

City driver here. Haven't seen much negative comments in the press here but daily encounter cyclists with an apparent death wish (think dressed head to toe in black, no high vis and a couple of tiny blinking lights) weaving through the traffic on dark rainy nights. Find it really stressful and I am meticulous in checking mirrors because I know they are out there.

Better than what tiggytape?

Whatsthat are you male? Just wondered if I was one of your idiots

muminhants picks up on something I'm never sure about.

If I'm cycling along a shared cycle/pedestrian path and there's someone walking on the middle of the path, or on the cycle side, I need to make them aware that I'm approaching. Not because I think I am more important and they should get out of the way, but because even if I intend to cycle around them, unless I ring my bell so that they know I'm there, there's a chance they'll veer/step into my path.

So bicycle bells are important, but I can see that someone might feel as though the bell-ringing cyclist is aggressive. I always make a point of saying thank you to a pedestrian after I've gone past them if I've rung the bell. But, if by using a bell, it's going to give pedestrians yet another reason to think cyclists are being aggressive, the only alternative to be absolutely sure that I don't go into someone, is to get off my bike and walk around the person and then get back on!

Yesterday an absolute twit went through a red light at a pedestrian crossing, and nearly got run over by me as I was turning right (crossing to my left). He was so busy dodging pedestrians on the crossing he didn't bother to look at the road ahead.

I did the whole wind down the window and yell at him which I appreciate is just as bad but I could have seriously injured him if I hadn't braked hard.

Round here (sussex) there is a real difference between the "proper" cyclist who knows the road and has the right gear and people with fold down bikes they use for commuting , whilst wearing a dark suit and undertaking me.

Based on my ongoing experiences cyclists are an absolute PITA. Rude, aggressive, ignoring red lights, zebra crossings, footpaths, refusing to stop and allow the mile of traffic that has built up behind to pass, speed cycling with no consideration for pedestrians, parents with small children etc etc etc...... cannot stand them.

I am also driver, pedestrian and cyclist and parent.

Since becoming a parent I am MUCH more aware of the massive amount of cyclist offences I can encounter in a single day - young children are very vulnerable and cyclists think they know best.

They know best when cycling through green men, swerving around buggies, old people and young children;
they know best running red lights;
they know best cycling on the pavement;
they know best cycling everywhere in public parks.

I despise them. I don't despise cyclists as a class, but I do despise the cyclists that recklessly endanger more vulnerable people, often justifying it because they in turn feel too vulnerable on the road.

If you feel too vulnerable to ride your bike on the road, in accordance with the road laws etc, then the answer is to get off your bike, not to, in turn doing stuff that makes you "feel safer" all the while making pedestrians more vulnerable from your actions.

Also it is really hard for young children to be able to run freely in many parks as they are full of cyclists cycling wherever they want to and this really seems to be unenforced.

If cyclists keep insisting they know best, and they will cycle where and how they want regardless of the rules of the road/footpath/park etc, then they are going to be hated for it I'm afraid.

Do you likewise despise drivers who endanger people?

I don't cycle ever really as I only learnt as an adult and am too wobbly to go anywhere near traffic. Dh does cycle with ds to school a few times a week. They cycle along a very busy dual carriage "A" road but there is a wide verge along the side with a path designed for both pedestrians and cyclists to use.

When they get closer to the school, the road turns into a normal high street type main road with a very wide pavement on one side, part of which is marked with a cycle path which runs practically to the school gate.

In principle this makes what would have been an impossible cycle ride to school quite doable even for a child.. However dh says that there have been a number of cyclists that have scared ds and almost driven him off the path by the fact that they have cycled so aggressively past him or towards him. DS is a child and is still learning to cycle on the road. The paths on the route to school should be the perfect opportunity for him to do this reasonably safely. He still has to be careful of cars coming out of side roads etc and Dh stays close to him and guides him etc. However it is not the cars that have caused the major the problems it is other cyclists on the path. One time ds was so spooked by someone cycling so aggressively and fast towards him that he panicked slightly and ended up hitting a bin and coming off the bike. The fast cyclists don't like sharing what is a very good and in quite a lot of places quite wide cycle path with anyone who is slower than they are.

In the same way that cars have to be a bit patient when behind a cyclist until they find a safe passing spot, the same applies to faster cyclists on a path who want to pass a slower one. Dh finds some of the "good" cyclists quite impatient overall, they can't seem to wait for anything; not for red lights to turn green or for a safe spot to pass slower cyclists.

As a motorist, I also find cyclists a bit scary but that is purely due to me as I am worried they are so vulnerable so I give them a wide berth.

I am semi-rural and gave up cycling on roads years ago, after having children. Something happens to some drivers when they see a cyclist, it's like they are trying to kill you. I really miss cycling, it's my favourite form of exercise but it's not worth the daily stress and the real danger