To send DS to a holiday club as I cannot cope with him anymore?

[MagersfonteinLugg]

Am currently sitting in my living room. The lamp no longer works, the sofa has stuffing pulled out of it, there is orange peel all over the floor and the curtains have been pulled down.....all thanks to my "lovely" DS.
This behaviour I should point out is normal everyday shit and usually takes place when I am in the shower.
I am in tears and have finally lost it. His brother and sister are no angels but they never do anything like this.
I want to enjoy the school hols and spend time with my DCs but seem to spend all of the holiday just cleaning up his shit.
So have decided that if any of us are going to enjoy the school holidays then it might be best if he went to a holiday club.
I could then actually do stuff with the other two and enjoy the time with them.
DH thinks I am being unreasonable. But I think the other DCs are missing out due to DS2s shitty behaviour.
AIBU?

And tbh I was just so at the muddy wellies incident I literally did not know what to say.
Thought about telling him how utterly disappointed I feel with him but some pps seem to think I am using language that is too mature for him to understand so am now yes ruining my whole parenting approach.

Questioning that should say.

I wouldn't change the approach as its worked for your other 2. I'd maybe use less language with youngest and be more positive whilst making it clear it's unacceptable. Eg he walks through house with wellies on - "oh dear you forgot to take your wellies off. Here's some shampoo for you to clean it up" that if it's done for a reaction he hasn't got one and he will learn pdq if you break it you fix it! Try and refrain from getting in the mindset you have to clean/fix for it to be done right. (That was my mistake!). Let him do it, smile sweetly and then do it properly when he's not looking (NEVER let him see you fix his mistakes - there is no reason for him to stop it then)

I have a 9 yo and it's entirely plausible that he would forget to take his wellies off actually. It sounds like you are both on a negative spiral... And why did you shampoo the carpet? You make the mess, you clean it up is the rule in our house. I know you think you are giving consequences for his actions, but if you are the one who does all the putting things right then you're not. Actually what you are doing is rewarding his behaviour with attention.

A calm, closely supervised day of him cleaning the house would have been much more effective than a screaming match and time out, IMO.

Actually short term space might be a good idea. Sounds like you could all use some.

Why are you convinced he does NOT require a diagnosis? Did I miss a post....? Has he been assessed...?

I'm just wondering if you are so used to your other lads situation that you might be missing cues from this boy, because you cannot see the wood from the trees.

Gentle question. Not a snip.

I really don't think he needs an assessment. His behaviour is not at all like DS1 who was a nightmare at school and at home. His diagnosis did nothing for his situation as the school never attempted to put in any support at all and basically said they did not think he had ASD even after receiving the official assessment. I can't see their attitude being any different with DS2.
I personally think he's just pushing all the time.
I put him to bed this evening and 5 mins later he had wet the bed. Fair enough if he'd been in bed a few hours and was deep asleep but 5 mins..... Really?

I really think you need to make him take responsibility for his behaviour. It is not up to you to clean his mess, just refuse to let him do anything else until he tidies up. I have a much younger brother who is incredibly stubborn and when he stays over at mine we have a simple rule that if he has been told to do something and doesn't do it then he sits in the spare bedroom (no play materials) until he does. Last time it was agreeing to have a bath, and he held out for a whole hour. I wont argue with him, wont discuss it and wont ever give in. It's hard but effective, my own child is only a toddler so a bit different.

YANBU I think you should send him to a holiday club. use that time to spend quality time with the other two children but also for you and your husband to jointly put a strategy in place for sorting out his behaviour. then when he returns, start the strategy.

If he is good as gold at school, then he can control his behaviour. he is therefore choosing to behave the way he does at home.

has he always been like this or did it start at a particular time or age? can you pinpoint when it started? maybe if you can pinpoint it, you can find the reason why he has become like this.

I think you need time out though. quality time with the other kids and also your husband I bet. Also talk to the other kids. ask them how it affects them.

also, let your son know how his behaviour affects you all and upsets you. dont shout or swear at him. just a calm mature conversation with him.

praise him when he is good but also let him learn that his bad behaviour means he will be the one who loses out ie he misses out on treats, he has to clean his mess and gets extra chores. have a behaviour chart with targets on so if his behaviour is good and he achieves targets , he gets a reward eg a special dinner, to choose a dvd to watch, a day out etc.

do also get professional advice though

best of luck

YANBU. I think the holiday club sounds like a good idea. How long before your other children start playing up because they see this is the way to get attention. Focusing on them for a change is a positive thing to do for them.

Your sons behaviour doesn't sound normal though. And considering you parent the others is what I am assume is the same way, it's odd that he acts up in this way. Unless he just thrives on the negative attention. That bed wetting thing would really have got to me. My 6 year old wets the bed but it's only occasionally and he is such a deep sleeper that he just doesn't wake up, it's always early hours of the morning and I know he sleeps through anything so I never punish him for that. 5 minutes after going to bed though, he'd be sorting that himself.

I agree with MiniSoks.

I also agree that behaving well in school does not rule out issues.

You also do not sound very fond of your son Try googling sensory seeking behaviours or sensory processing disorder. The wetting his bed immediately could be a very obvious example of him not being able to tell what he is feeling at any moment holding on to the last minute etc.

There are some self-righteous people on this thread certainly.

I think the holiday club sounds a good idea actually as long as you present it to yourself and him as something he will benefit from rather than just a way of getting him out of your hair. And using up energy is always beneficial.

You are doing a good job really you are - please don't let a manky sofa and orange peel make you feel like you are failing. Three children is a lot to handle and no-one expects your house to be perfect. But liking your children is very important - and I think they can tell when you don't..much.

Sounds totally exasperating and do not blame you for booking holiday club. Guessing you have firm boundries in place since you have a dc with adhd. I would start making him clean up after himself. I also would be telling him I was upset he tracked mud through the house. So I'd have him re stuffing the sofa and cleaning up the mud.

I use time outs in bedroom (before I explode) with my DS as he does exactly this type of thing - totally careless and thoughtless. I use 1,2,3 magic with mine as is very good for nipping off whining.

Wetting himself whilst he was awake then I would get him to change his own pjs and help me change the bed. I would try hard not to get cross (and myself would sometimes fail miserably in that situation), ask him why then just give him a cuddle and stick him back to bed.

He does sound more attention and impulse issues. As Iv learned a diagnosis get you nothing.

If he's good as gold at school then he can control his behaviour this is rubbish trotted out by far too many people. Yes, he can control his behaviour at school but if he had to stay there all day he probably couldn't. He's held himself together for school (for that you should praise him - would you rather he was causing havoc there?) possibly because he knows what is happening next and knows that he will get home eventually.
But all that holding yourself together is quite an ordeal if you have any issues with concentration and listening etc sitting still - when you come home you are a cork out of a bottle. Home is a safe place you can stop trying to please people in.

Behaviour charts with some kids are also a red herring. They can create further friction. If you respond impulsively or make a mistake (like forgetting your wellies) you lose out on a treat - gosh that would make me even madder...

Sorry but I don't really get the " can behave at school but not at home thing".
DS1 was equally out of order at school as he was at home so we knew from early on that he needed assessment .
DS2 has never had any issue at school whatsoever. Comes home and causes absolute mayhem. To my mind this means he chooses to behave at school and chooses to misbehave at home.

My Ds2 behaves perfectly at school but blows up and has meltdowns at home.
He ticks boxes for ASD and SPD, maybe not enough for a diagnosis, but his struggles are real. He is not choosing to behave in this way, he can't help it.

Just because your ds1 doesn't mask doesn't mean that ds2 has to present in the same way. It's not something that you have to 'get', it just is the way it is.

He probably does have issues at school, but is unable to show it.
For your ds2's sake you need to get your head round this and show him some compassion. Step back from the cycle of behaviour and punishment, try to put some strategies in to allow him some wind down time at home.
Don't expect his teachers to understand, and grow a massive set of balls as you are the one who can make a difference for your ds. He is worth fighting for.

Buy The Explosive Child, read about masking, go to the GP and start the ball rolling for assessment. Don't give up on him.

Think about it this way for the school- home thing. How many adults do you know, read about on MN who go to work everyday in a job they don't enjoy or where there's issues with colleagues? Lots! These adults still manage to remain professional for that time and let lose with a whinge and bitch at home. A child can't let it out in an adult manner hence the behaviour being more extreme.

swan speaks a lot of sense and truth. I for one have found her advice invaluable over the years. Please consider her comments seriously.

OP, did you read the link that I sent about the home-school thing?

I believe him, but it helps that I have seen the exact same thing with the child in DS's class who is apparently "fine" at school but a nightmare at home, and has just been diagnosed with ASD.

Ds3 is perfect at school, awful at home. He's actually too good at school - was practically mute in the early years (screams the place down with us) & even now (age 10) when I see him at school he looks odd & uncomfortable - walking very straight backed with little movement of the arms (at home he never walks anywhere - he runs, hops, skips & twirls). Over the years I've come to suspect that the sensory processung issues he has make him this way. I'm not sure he copes very well with the busyness of school so retreats, then it all comes out at home.

He's also third child with 2 brothers, who for various reasons get lots of attention - which is another issue that will feed into bad behaviour at home.

But definitely possible (& quite common) for kids to hold it together in school then let it out so where safe.

Downloaded the Explosive Child on audible and listened to it this afternoon. I have read it before, but then I think I've read every book out there.
I will try plan B as he suggests, although getting anything out of DS2 is like trying to get blood from a stone.
Found the part about different parenting styles very useful as DH always goes for plan A and sometimes plan C, but only because he thinks if he ignores the behaviour I will sort it.

You seem to have been given some good advice and suggestions here but I do get the feeling that your DH needs to be a bit more pro-active. He doesn't seem to be doing much to help.

Well done Magers - I know it is hard to get the energy to even think about what to do differently when you're dealing with it day in, day out.

Personally, I also found the idea that, if they could do what we wanted, they would, quite helpful.

saintly your description of your DS's moving as "runs, hops, skips & twirls" made me .

Well done!
I would be tempted to push for assessment, but mainly so if everything at school goes wrong (maybe as puberty hits or as the expectations for behaviour increase) you have the bit of paper to support you.

Try timetables, and signs. "Wellies off" stuck to the door. Going to bed steps which include going to the toilet.

Try to introduce some strict procedures which always happen. Be ready for him to take a lot of repetitions to learn, but keep going. "Overlearning" is a good concept, so he doesn't just learn something, but learns it to the stage of automaticity.