Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think that having children is not a "lifestyle choice"

437 replies

YorkshireTeaGold · 21/01/2015 12:19

Sooo, saw a thread on aibu where the op complained about childcare costs and was told by another poster that she shouldn't complain as having kids was a lifestyle choice.

I've heard this so many times recently, both on mn and in rl and it massively pisses me off! My father actually told me not to complain about morning sickness as I wanted children.

I have 2 dcs and think that this is just maintaining the equilibrium of the world. Reproduction is a biological need, like eating or survival, it's not like taking up golf or buying a yacht. I can see maybe having no kids could be a lifestyle choice for some, as could having 9. But a couple? Not a lifestyle choice.

Plus it hides a political issue in that it's really difficult to afford to bring up children atm. I did a online check (think it was in the guardian) and dh and I are 75th centile for earnings. However 1/3 of this goes on the mortgage, 1/3 on childcare and 1/3 to barely cover the bills. It's ridiculous that this is the case, and if only people who truely afforded it had kids then it'd just be an elite minority reproducing. The government should organise the country so an average family can afford to buy a house and work.

OP posts:
fakenamefornow · 22/01/2015 09:19

I think a lot of you are contusing feelings with actions.

I agree, feelings, the desire to have a child, we have little or no control over.

Actions, actually making the decision and having a child, we have ( in this country) almost complete control over.

Therefore I would say it is most definitely a lifestyle choice.

blowinahoolie · 22/01/2015 09:29

It's a lifestyle choice. You can use contraception to avoid getting pregnant if you want to, or you can choose to have a family. Choices.

Redcagoule · 22/01/2015 09:30

And what if everyone exercised the choice not to have children fakename?

ChocLover2015 · 22/01/2015 09:37

I agree with the Op .I think having children is a basic human instinct.Every other species on the earth has the single goal of passing on the genetic baton in as as prolific a manner as possible.You can live without walking for example, but you wouldn't call choosing to have legs a 'lifestyle choice' A ridiculous example sure, but for some people the drive to have children is that strong.

angelos02 · 22/01/2015 10:05

*And what if everyone exercised the choice not to have children fakename?

Then the human race would die out...just as other species do.

And?

angelos02 · 22/01/2015 10:06

And what if everyone exercised the choice not to have children fakename?

Then the human race would die out...just as other species do.

And?

Redcagoule · 22/01/2015 10:14

Not entirely sure how to respond to that Angelos02, I guess if you have no interest in our species then there is no need to invest in it.

specialsubject · 22/01/2015 10:15

'lifestyle choice' is indeed a nauseating phrase. But as allegedly higher animals who are not totally driven by instinct, those of us in countries where contraception is allowed DO have a choice.

Also the OP has forgotten that some of the big costs of child raising are shared by everyone, parents or not.

In this country, those without children still pay for schools, children's healthcare etc etc etc. There's no discount of taxes if you don't have kids! I think this is entirely as it should be (although I have met people who believe otherwise!) because we do need to support each other to some extent.

RockinHippy · 22/01/2015 11:58

YABU

in this day & age in the environment we live in - it IS a lifestyle choice - one I am very glad to have made & therefore don't moan about the negatives

Perhaps that's where you are going wrong

HairyOrk · 22/01/2015 14:20

Am I the only one that thinks the human race is probably the worst thing that's happened to this planet?

Onceuponatimetherewas · 22/01/2015 14:45

No, Hairy, of course you're right about that. But I don't see most people caring too much.

HairyOrk · 22/01/2015 15:13

Glad it's not just me Smile I have no problem with people having children, I want them myself but am getting increasingly Confused about people implying that having children is doing a good deed... I can't help but thing the best thing we could do for the planet is die out move!

Redcagoule · 22/01/2015 15:15

Or raise children to care for the planet better?

Bowlersarm · 22/01/2015 15:21

Totally agree HairyOrk.

YABU, OP,. The planet doesn't need baby humans. We have the choice to prevent baby humans being born. We don't need to have children we want to have children. Children are definitely a lifestyle choice.

BeCool · 22/01/2015 15:26

Well we would all be fucked if everyone stopped having children and chose an alternative "lifestyle".

But the animals, plants etc would thrive.

GingerCuddleMonster · 22/01/2015 15:36

If we were to go by some people's logic on this thread it would seem the people in Japan must be born with no instinct whatsoever....or they are making a lifestyle choice, seen as the birth rate in Japan is declining.

squoosh · 22/01/2015 15:41

The Italians too I think. They've transitioned from traditionally large families to a declining population.

IPityThePontipines · 22/01/2015 15:53

"Surely the more attractive option is a lower population with more each, rather than a higher population scratching around in the dirt?"

Actually, if you read the article, birth rates are falling globally anyway. A google of "Bangladesh birth rates" shows the average birth rate to be 2.21 per woman, with India and Pakistan having figures of 2.50 and 3.26, respectively.

So the rate of population growth is not due to people having squillions of children. It's because those children are living longer as improvements in living standards, generally not only leads to reduced birth rates, but also to decreased rates of infant mortality, fewer mouths to feed means there's more to go round.

So if you really wanted to actively reduce the earth's population, telling people to have fewer children, isn't going to cut it. You need to be actively wiping out swathes of the world population to really dent population growth.

Or alternatively, we could look at how we use and squander world resources and look at more sustainable ways of living...

shovetheholly · 22/01/2015 15:54

I worry that the phrase 'lifestyle choice' is a distraction.

Of course having children is a choice (and thank god for reproductive rights). To my mind, that fact makes it all the more altruistic.

BUT hidden behind debates about this it there is often a wider debate about who should pay for education, health, etc. And a kind of selfish idea that people should only pay for what they personally use, which denies the social or collective benefits of having a well-educated, healthy population.

I say this as someone who probably can't have children, and is heartbroken about it. Even though I personally am unlikely to have this amazing experience, though, doesn't mean that I shouldn't contribute through taxes to the wellbeing of other people's children. I firmly believe that redistribution of wealth to ensure that no child misses out on education, health, opportunities in life benefits all of us. We are all connected.

IPityThePontipines · 22/01/2015 16:07

"I firmly believe that redistribution of wealth to ensure that no child misses out on education, health, opportunities in life benefits all of us. We are all connected."

I do too. The negative impacts of social and economic inequality are colossal.

maninawomansworld · 22/01/2015 16:57

I firmly believe that redistribution of wealth to ensure that no child misses out on education, health, opportunities in life benefits all of us. We are all connected

Very true indeed. However it does rely on people not taking the p*ss by taking too much and not contributing enough. If you get too many net takers it increases the pressure on the givers then eventually the system collapses.
A couple of kids - fine, but you've no business having half a dozen if you can't support them and have no realistic hope of being able to in the near future. You're doing yourself no favours, society no favours and the kids no favours either!

I hate the phrase 'lifestyle choice' as I think it's really wanky but like it or not, children are a choice. Childcare costs are scandalous but if children are that important you have 2 choices - grin and bear it for a few years or try and reorganise your life so that childcare can be provided by family without excessive cost.

The government should organise the country so an average family can afford to buy a house and work.
And while they're at it why not solve world hunger, bring about world peace and find out once and for all whether Elvis truly is dead?! If you reckon you could do this then I hear there may soon be a vacancy in Downing Street - I suggest you apply!

Unfortunately organising the country so that the average family can afford to buy a house and work comes down to one thing ...... housing costs! Why are housing / land costs so high? ..... yes you guessed it, because there are TOO MANY PEOPLE on our little island and everyone wants a nice house, which drives prices up. This brings us neatly back to the point raised a few comments back - we need fewer people!

merrymouse · 22/01/2015 17:09

I agree that you can't just expect the government to sort things out, but house prices aren't high everywhere.

Alpacacino · 22/01/2015 17:59

we need fewer people!

There's still some space left in the Scottish Highlands.

If you send all criminals to Australia, you might b able to free up some more space (or perhaps simply invade Poland. Has worked in the past. Hi there, Godwin!)

BMW6 · 22/01/2015 18:02

I agree the Planet does not need us to procreate. It would be much better for the rest of life on earth if we did die out - we are a piss poor parasite.

FFs we kill each other at the drop of a hat. Sometimes for pleasure.
More of us? I'd rather there were more mosquitos.

Jackieharris · 22/01/2015 18:20

Not every baby is a choice. My mum didn't find out she was pregnant with me (on the pill) until she was 6 months. Not much 'choice' there!