Planning Permission Rejected

[YellowTulips]

So planning permission for a loft conversion that would have given us an additional bedroom and playroom has been rejected.

House is in a conservation area, but all the changes would have been at the back and consistent with the materials and detailing of the (old 1730's, but not listed) house.

Reasons for rejection are just flimsy and btw no neighbours opposed the plans.

Anyway we have decided to appeal at a cost of £500 and have found out the decision will take up to 28 weeks!!!

Even if we get the decision overturned that's a hell of a long wait.....especially as I (foolishly) had been mentally shopping all the new furniture and soft furnishings and lusting over F&B paint charts ;-)

So all in all am AIBU to be cross about the whole damn matter? :-)

Did the application go to committee or was it delegated to the officer and if committee, did they vote against their officer's recommendations?

I recommend you speak to the officer or someone on the committee who rejected it to see if there are any specific changes or quick fixes.

Was it not allowed under permitted development?

It went to committee but the planning officers recommended a rejection.

Normally I'd probably be in agreement that the plans were flawed :-)

However, the architect was pretty shell shocked and the planning consultant doing the appeal has said he thinks we have a good case, because of the grounds for objection not being consistent with local planning policy.

Obviously I'll be pleased if we win the appeal, but pretty grumpy about the cost and time involved.

Your house may not be officially listed but because if its age and location, it sounds like it's being treated as though it is. This from SPAB may help:

Q. What gets listed?
A. All buildings built before 1700 which survive in anything like their original condition. Most buildings between 1700 to 1840, but some selection is necessary. After 1840 the best examples of particular building types are listed: and only those of definite quality and character. Only selected buildings after 1914 are listed. Buildings less than 30 years old are normally only listed if they are outstanding, and under threat. Buildings with important historic or technological connections can be listed even if not of great architectural merit. Individual structures, such as gateposts, milestones, and lamp posts can all be separately listed. For further guidance on listing eligibility in England see English Heritage's Principles of Selection for Listing Buildings.

This link may help:

www.spab.org.uk/advice/conservation-advice/what-is-listing-/

Oh OK understood. And another point in your favour is no local objections.

Good luck with the appeal.

I think the crucial part is the lack of consistency with lolocal planning policy.

*local

Thank you - I just wish it wasn't going to take so long....

If the appeal fails we still have options, but we could only put in the bedroom and en-suite and not the playroom.

Ironically though that would mean re-locating the proposed new staircase and impacting the beams in the house, causing (imho) more impact to it's integrity than the plans we have submitted (the planners suggested this as an alternative). It all seems so bloody subjective and hit and miss.

Anyway will have to put the interior design mags away for a bit!

It may be easier, cheaper and quicker to determine exactly WHY it was rejected, and resubmit your plans taking the Planning Officer's feedback into consideration.
You may have to do that anyway if your appeal is unsuccessful.

Alter your plans slightly then resubmit, don't waste 28 weeks on an appeal

You have my sympathy.

We have just had planning permission granted for something that three separate architects told me we'd never get permission for, and the fourth who is working with us is amazed we got a yes as well. You are right that it is incredibly hit and miss, there seems to be no sense to it.

The bit that our council weren't happy with was the bit that all four architects we asked thought would be no problem whatsoever, and the reason given for wanting that change to the plans is pathetically flimsy, especially as the change they suggested doesn't seem to achieve what they want anyway.

The whole system is pants.

I appealed the same sort of thing and won. Was told that my dormer would 'set an unwelcome precedent'. At the planning appeal the planning consultant showed a photo she had taken while standing in my garden - of the house above us with an enormous dormer... The appeal committee were scratching their heads.

Who called it to committee? That's odd for a householder application with no objections.

I would have thought 28 weeks unlikely. I think most are heard much more quickly than that?

Without giving too much away it's not possible to alter the plans and re-submit.

The scheme we have put forward is the only way to get loft conversion to result in 2 rooms due to the location of the chimney breast.

If we could have taken the objections into account and re-designed around them then we would have done so.

It's a bit all or nothing in this case.

TBH I know they have a job to do and living in a conservation area I don't want to see a load of botch jobs on the houses around me - so can't really have it both ways! Though I would say I think the grounds for objection are poor (though I suppose I would think that, but as above the architect and planning consultant happen to agree).

Just struggling with how long the appeal will take as ideally work would have been in progress by now.

Has anyone else done an appeal? How long did it take?

We re-submitted rather than appeal. The Planning Officer turned it down although we had taken out the one feature that had been objected to in the first application. After we pointed this out the Planning Officer told us she hadn't looked at our file & it was approved 48 hrs later. House is listed Grade 2.

I had one back just before Christmas, it took about 14 weeks.

Here's hoping it's 14 weeks not 26!

I do a lot of appeals as part of my job. The time limits are there to ensure as far as possible that most decisions are reached within the time limit so some will be quicker.

But it does take a long time - there are a lot of them and big enough planning inspectors.

I'm surprised at it going to committee. Even small housing estates go through on the Planning Officers say so around here

My in laws had awful problems getting approval for their self build. Essentially one officer rejected and recommended changes, then went on maternity. Her replacement then rejected again, on the basis of the fresh changes being stupid. When it finally went to appeal it was approved, 10 in favour, 2 abstain. They moved in before Christmas.

I am very sceptical about planning applications.

We had our plans rejected initially - when we read the planning officer's report it contained a description of a completely different house. Wrong number of stories, wrong period. The recommendations would have resulted in a side extension with a ceiling 2 stories high.

We had to resubmit correcting all the mistakes. Subsequently heard from a couple of local builders that the planning officer concerned is notorious for this.

Meanwhile the local property tycoon was able to demolish part of a local listed building, destroy a couple of trees that had preservation orders on them and build a second house on a plot that was clearly not big enough. No questions asked, apparently.

I am a bit cynical about the whole system TBH.

I agree that you need to try and find out the specific issues and address those.

To be honest the whole frustration is we went to a lot of trouble (and if approved expense) on making sure the design was sympathetic and used appropriate materials.

It seems a bit like the prevailing attitude is almost as if you are trying to "ruin" your own home - when nothing could be further from the truth.

The planning consultant has said that even though he thinks we have a good case, it's 50/50 on the appeal and it really comes down to the ethos of the planning inspector who will make the judgement and how they interpret the local plan.

It's all so subjective, but for us so important.

I'm a new poster, but work in a local planning authority - I appreciate you can't be too specific, but what were the reasons for refusal listed on the decision notice - did any of them relate to amenity? Local plan policy usually has this sort of policy - a planning officer could consider a development has an impact on neighbours, even if the neighbours themselves did not object...