To think that the under 18s minimum wage is exploitative

[DaddyDavid]

My son who is 16 has been offered a job at a supermarket. The pay is £3.72 an hour. I can't und why the minimum wage is lower for under-18s it seems like age discrimination. This has annoyed me so much, as I fualt it would be good for ds1 to get a Saturday job but know I think it would be better if he worked about the house and I pay him more aibu

Skating
Dh supported me. He worked away and I was a sahm

I think some employers pay the under-18s NMW only until the kid has some qualifications; so once they have GCSE in English-maths & something else like lifeguarding-childcare-catering-whatever qualifications then they go onto same wage scale as the age 18+.

formerbabe

You are absolutely misconstruing what I'm saying. I meant that on paper it doesn't look a lot compared to NMW for 18+, but if he looks at his outgoing he'll realise it is worth him working it instead of just writing it off because it doesn't look a lot when compared to an adults NMW.

For a 16 year old with no outgoings the money would be quite adequate I would have thought.

I am NOT saying that it's right for employers to pay this, because I'm not sure where I stand on that. I'm saying the above.

So if the OP's 16 year old DS works an eight hour shift pw he will earn approx £30 that he wouldn't otherwise have.

£1500 per year.

That is a lot of money.

Obviously money isn't scarce in that household.

I find the whole idea of low pay for under 18 year olds completely exploitive and modern apprenticeship salaries even more so. On the positive side, my daughter five years ago when aged 16 was paid £5.35 an hour or thereabouts when she started at Homebase for her Saturday job, not too much less than the over 18 year olds at that time and she was well treated and given proper longer more frequent breaks than the older staff. I have total respect for them when so many other employers use young people as cheap labour. I wonder if some of the posters who think that this is OK might be employing young people at cheap rates themselves? A lot of these low paying jobs don't require much training and to suggest that the young people are learning a valuable set of skills is often a joke. Older people aren't necessarily better at the job, more reliable or always have more mature attitudes.

I understand why people think it's disgusting, and I think it's unfair myself.

However I do think if it was raised it would have detrimental effects. On the amount of young people being employed and on the amount of young people staying in education for example.

I don't think it's a joke to suggest they're building up skills. Just learning how to be a good employee is a skill in itself.
I'd like to see these young people paid more but in practice I think it would then be harder for them to gain employment and get a foothold into work.
The alternative would be volunteering to get a CV up and running.

Would a rise drive more young people to stay in education?
Would it create more NEETs?
Would it reduce number of apprenticeships on offer?

The usual 'I grafted down a mine for a dozen years and paid da Masta for the privilege of it when I were a bairn so everyone else till Kingdom Come should, too' bandied about in this thread.

Yabu your ds is very fortunate to be offered a job at 16. Many teenagers would bite his hand of for the opportunity. Of course he isn't worth as much as an older employee with more experience. He also doesn't need to support himself/ a family on his wage.

my younger sister (16 due to turn 17) and her partner (18 due to turn 19) have both been applying for jobs, my sister for about 11 months her partner for about 2 years.
Her partner finally got a job 2 months ago. they have a baby due in September and a house to run.
Its not as simple as "Some dont have expenses" well yes, but some bloody do. it should be at least 5 ph IMO. 1.50 lower than the current NMW but still liveable (just) with two incomes or top up benefits.

I'm in the 'how can I be so low' camp

Over 20 years ago got £10 for about 3 hours work at the weekend, When I was 14. Other jobs like pot washing were £2.60 ph some places paid less but then you didn't stay around when you found someone else willing to pay more! One place I worked at when I was 15 was on a burgar Van we would work about 4-5 hours for £15 but if it was a rush extremely busy day he would share some profits I once got £50 for one day! Later after leaving school I did YT yes it was a crap £40 a week but I looked at it as, I could do the qualification at college for nothing and no work experience. Or take the qualification Plus£40 and experience, still have Saturday job /evening work waitressesing/pot washing.
By 18 I was earning nearly £4.00 ph full time office job and could afford to run my own car.

I remember thinking the minimum wage was a good idea. But on reflection maybe it's stunted wages as many employers now see it as that's all we have to pay wage. I don't know.......

It's nut unreasonable as generally it is all for them. No tax to pay. No rent to pay - just transport for those of us who don't live in London.
They are less experienced, less mature, and still learning.
Everyone has to start somewhere.
It is a lot more than 1/2 the NMW BTW - at £5.13 for 18 - 21 yr olds and £6.50 for over 21s.

He should definitely take it. I was working in a pharmacy on £2 per hour for 2.5 hours one evening per week when I was 15, thought I was doing well!

It's ridiculous. It's not relevant what they are or are not spending it on. If you do a job you should be paid for it the same as everyone else. I'm shocked this still exists.
Even more ridiculous that 18-21 year olds have another lower than the rest of us minimum wage. Many people of that age are paying rent and living out. I think it's completely wrong.

You have to stay in education until 18 so a raise won't encourage people to leave school. I think around £5 an hour would be a fair wage.

My nephew left school at 18, got an apprenticeship paying £110 a week! Less than £2.80 an hour at 18. He stuck at it and after 6 months it went up to £5 an hour and now he is minimum wage £6.50 an hour. It's not great at 21 but he draws £1000 a month, pays his mum £100 a month. Has no car so no car related costs and has over £200 a week to spend as he likes. He is happy as a pig in shit, buys designer clothes, holidays, goes out all the time and has no debt.

It's not bad if you have no commitments, builds up work experience and new friendships.

I can't see what's not to like about it really.

Yes but whatever you think is a fair wage isn't going to influence the reality.
Does he want the experience or not?

You are absolutely misconstruing what I'm saying. I meant that on paper it doesn't look a lot compared to NMW for 18+, but if he looks at his outgoing he'll realise it is worth him working it instead of just writing it off because it doesn't look a lot when compared to an adults NMW

Yes I understand that but wages are not based on an employees outgoings. If a woman with a wealthy husband is doing the same job in the same company as a single mum who is struggling, they will still get paid the same. The employer will not alter their wages according to their lifestyles. Yes, most 16-18 year olds will still be living at home, what about the ones who aren't?

I don't think an apprentice "wage" is that bad, as it's not as simple as doing a job and being paid for it. They are being trained for three years to learn a trade, and if they do well and work hard they have a good chance of a reasonably well paid job at the end of it. Kids who go to college or uni don't get pid to learn, instead they have to get into debt and usually have less chance of a job at he end of it

formerbabe no sorry you're not understanding what I'm getting at that's evident from your reply.

I'm not talking about anyone else, I'm talking about the OP's son.
The lad is deciding not to take the job because he is looking at it from the perspective of 'well they get more' instead of thinking 'I have little to no outgoings, I don't have any at the moment so the money I will earn is surely a bonus and will better me'. As adults when we apply for jobs we decide whether or not we can afford to take it. We look at the wage, we look at our outgoings, we see how much money we will have left over. The OP's son must also do this. The point is the lad may be cutting his nose off to spite his face because he doesn't think it's worth it

I am saying the OP's son must weigh it up rather than pooh poohing the idea because he doesn't think it's enough compared to older people's wage. I am not saying that younger people should be given less because they're less likely to have outgoings.

Absolutely agree.. I see what you are saying. Yes, if it was my son I'd be encouraging him to do it, despite my disgust!

Sorry if I wasn't very clear, it sounded okay when I was typing it out

I think OP's DP will end up with more disposable income than I have, good on him

DS*