To ask what the hell is up with people judging children's names?!

[WonderingWillow]

Just that, really. When my DS was born, we gave him a classic first name and a middle name we really loved but was a little more unusual.

My parents came to meet DS, and when they asked his name, my mum sniggered and barely covered her laugh, and said "well, we like the FIRST name, but NOT the middle name!!" And my dad just sat there sneering.
When we saw them just before Christmas, my mum said over a cup of tea "so is his middle name still X? God, did you actually put it on the birth certificate?!" He is 4 now!

Also, I've a friend whose second daughter has a really lovely, but unusual name. It sounds gorgeous, but she had family actually say to her "please don't call your DD that name" when she was PREGNANT.

what the hell? I would never have the bare faced cheek to say that to anyone, and would expect to be given a damn good ignoring for a while!

What gives people the right? Why are people so rude? AIBU to think that if you don't like a baby's name when the parent tells you, you nod and smile and compliment the new parent on their choice anyway and then keep your opinions to yourself?

I can honestly say I know of (not urban legend) a boy called Skag. Who thinks that's a good idea? Regardless of if it comes from ancient wherever it means something different these days and it's not going to bode well for future job applications.

It's not a nice character trait of mine to judge people by their names but I do and if someone applied for a job called Fairybelle I'd be thinking their application needed to be something special to overcome that name.

I loved the name Willow but have a very er, "woody" last name.

Also loved Austin for a boy, but the name would have given him the name of a fairly well known menswear shop.

Can anyone guess what my last name is?

I think it's just naïve to not expect that society will make judgements on the basis of your name.

Like it or not the name given by parents does reflect on the child - at least as far as initial encounter goes and for some people, beyond that.

If you don't like that, then stick with traditional names.

To the point of "is it anyone's business" then beyond the extended family no, it's not. However, if my parents had had such an extreme reaction to what I was calling my child I would have thought twice about it and I don't think it's unusual for a grandparent to comment honestly on a proposed name.

DS1 and DS2 have traditional names, DS3 has a name that is more often a surname. I'm lucky in that I've never had anyone sneer/judge to my face - but even if they did, I'd still say its his name, we love it, it suits him and he seems to quite like it, so what's the issue?

FWIW I have a very unusual (at least over here) first name and surname that people have lots of trouble pronouncing, spelling and ascertaining racial identity from - so all 3 boys have names that are very very very easy to spell!

And whenever a baby names thread is started that is what it boils down to 'I think that name is common, I wouldn't like a child with that name, I think its acceptable to prejudge based on a name, therefore I will do all I can to justify my judgement'

People can bang on about bullying, CVs, high court judges as much as they like but it comes down to sneering and snobbery.

The fact that you get educated, intelligent women saying things like 'I can always tell if a child is going to be a PITA from the class list at the beginning of term, I am never wrong' AND people nod and go along with it is astounding.

It just wouldn't wash with any other form of prejudice. They would get mullered.

Its true, but I think you'd also be unwise to be completely ignorant of those prejudices when picking your child's name. Especially when some of those prejudices are subconscious even amongst people who don't think they are being.

Freaknomics was perhaps the book that highlighted the issue most in the public's mind and in turn may have made the situation worse but its none the less very interesting.

They showed that the name you've been given can subconsciously draw you to certain things and people. Someone called 'Chaos' really has been given a message in their name by their parents about their expectations - but they can either go in that direction or in exactly the opposite one rebelling against their name.

The predictions they made seem to be half spot on, half way off the mark. But what I find really interesting is that the top naming trend for 2015 is to apparently give your child a 'defining name' - think Titan, Apollo, Rogue, Saint, Noble, River, Buzz, Rocky. All very 'strong' or instantly give you a certain impression, so I think that Freakonomics had something of a effect on the way we think about names as much as reflecting patterns.

Its also worth pointing out that today's 'upper class' names are tomorrow's ''chavvy' names as names tend to graduate through social classes...

The trouble is you can really end up over thinking it, and it would be very easy if you did to end up giving your child a name which you hated which defeats the point (and from the psychologically of it all, may well up having its own pitfalls anyway!)

When I was a teenager my boyfriend left me for another girl, and she had an otherwise normal name spelt very weirdly (including an 'ae').

I took a bit of comfort from that fact that she must have come from a family who couldn't spell properly and would have to go through life with a chavvy spelling on her CV etc!

MrsDeVere,

The trouble with

“Tom is the most inoffensive name. It screams, ‘I don’t belong in the class system, promise.’”
“Absolutely not. It’s secretly posh. Toms are generally caddish but charming. Your girlfriend fancies someone called Tom.”
“People called Tom often go by their surname because there are so many of them that it’s logistically necessary.”
“Or maybe they go by their surname because they all went to public school.”

is the only Tom I know went to public school and is now a teacher at a public school. He is a caddish twat.

If I have another child, I am strictly going for high court judge names....

...so far the possibilities for a boy are

Peregrine
Wyn
Vivian
Roderic
Launcelot

(from the top 50 high court judges on wikipedia)

I think it's incredibly unfair when parents ignore the impact their choice will have on the child.

My mother knew I'd get bullied. My father knew I'd get bullied. They had a 7 year old and a 6 year old who were getting hassle for their names (the 3 sibling had a relatively ok-ish name), yet they still decided it was their "right" to give me an even worse name than the older 3.

People do judge, I doubt I'd have my current job if I put my actual first name at the top of the page.

Hehe Imagines the reaction to the thread with those possible choices hazeyjane.

I reckon Cuntface Peterson will end up bullying my little Peregrine, but he'll get his comeuppance when becomes a high court judge, and Cuntface is being done for general villainy.

Those of you being judgemental about names that aren't perceived as inoffensive and run of the mill, and shrieking about the negative impact of an unusual name on a child, and how you'd be naive to ignore other people's prejudices - why not do something about combating small-minded snobbery and prejudice, and teaching your children not to bully on grounds of any difference and not to grow up to be snobs?

Because these brutal playground bullies and sneering recruitment consultants are someone's children. Unless they are invented purely as straw men for the 'call all children Jack and Sophie' argument.

she had an otherwise normal name spelt very weirdly (including an 'ae')

Rachel/Rachael? The -ael spelling has been around for a long time, but it's never been anything like as popular as the -el spelling.

Perhaps it was Cuntfaece, Mimsy?

Good god, that really looks like Cuntfaeces!

No-one would bully a Cuntfaeces, would they?

HolyTerror given DS is a) 4 months old b) has an unusual name himself and c) a lot of prejudice is vehemently culturally deep seated and goes simply beyond the influence of parents and d) how I parent is going to have a very limited effect, I suggest you get off that high horse of yours.

With the best will in the world people are often not very nice and you can't change it in one generation. I'll do my bit in that, but I accept sadly that it will exist throughout my son's life time in one form or another.

I'd also like to know what makes you think I wouldn't be teaching my son the values of tolerance? His name was given with that very much in mind and has a huge backstory story to it which in time will be taught to DS.

Hazeyjane

Redtooth, I'm not sure why you feel I was addressing you - my post was a general comment on the judgemental hand wringers on the thread, who tut about bullying and CVs, but are clearly perfectly content in their own judgementalism and snobbery, as if the one doesn't contribute to the other.

Call it being on my high horse if you like, but people continually behave on these threads as if recruiters tossing Jaycee-Mae Belle Smith's CV in favour of Charlotte Elizabeth Smith's belong to another species. No, it won't change immediately - and won't while this country remains obsessed with social class - but there's something very depressing about the assumption that all you can do is give your child a top ten name and snigger at those who haven't made a similar choice.

I'm sure you will be teaching your son tolerance, just as I'm teaching my unusually-named 2year old the same. So there will be at least two of them in playgrounds in a few years not teasing Orla because her name is an anagram of Oral.

Children don't tease each other because they are intolerant though. They tease other children because it makes them feel superior.

I think you are missing the point Holy. You mention it's depressing that some parents give there children get a top 10 names because it denotes class and sneer at others. Is not that a bit sneery? Why give your child an " unusual" name if not to set them apart from others?

I would assume that an Orla had Irish connections and was unimaginatively named after the designer TBH. But that would be a judgement of the name ( and possibilbly the parents) and not of the child.

Holy, I think my point is, that I believe that to a degree that human nature means there will always be arseholes in society and that there will also be people who believe incorrectly that certain things are superior to others.

I also believe that a lot of people pick up on these without malice and are normally very fair, liberal minded individuals who would be utterly mortified at treating someone differently because of their name, but do so without even realising they are doing it. Such is the world in which we live. (And is what studies have actually shown. Even people who work in equality and diversity have been guilty of this type of thing)

So I think it is worth being mindful of that - so that if you do make a decision to name your child certain things, you might need to teach them how to deal with that too in a positive fashion.

A negative stereotype could be a really good motivator in many ways.

Its about understanding the message a name communicates so you can make it a force of self identity and worth rather than a hindrance.

Certainly ethnic names are not in themselves bad things - they can be powerful positives too.

Even a comedy name, might be helpful too. Would you remember Jane Wood or Holly Wood?

I met two boys named James the other day.looking up there surnames so that I could identify them I noticed one of the James was spelt with a z. Poor lad.

DS is Conrad. dh and I love it but it is 100% a marmite name

When he was born and I called my mother to tell her of his arrival and name. Her reaction was " THATS HORRIBLE! " (comes from the woman who named her son Helmut btw)

ffw 12 years and her visiting us last summer.. " I always like the name Conrad it is such a strong and solid name"......

In other words.. She got used to it. Learnt it as " our Conrad" and he is lovely (says his utterly unbiased mother :) )