To hope the Pope does indeed punch his assistant...

[PausingFlatly]

... and get arrested for assault.

Seems he thinks it's clever to state that people who insult his mother should be punched.

As an example of how to treat people who insult him or religion.

And I'd thought this Pope wasn't dim. Looks like I was wrong.

"It's just a turn of phrase for goodness sake"

In the mouth of someone who is regarded as infallible and who has millions taking him entirely at face value, it is not a turn of phrase.... it's irresponsible.

Religious leaders have a responsibility to preach proportionality. Insult mama and the proportional response is to be annoyed or upset. Not to give millions of followers the green light to dish out physical punishment.

Lol when Catholics start punching people in response to insults, on his example I'll agree you might have a point. Not sure that's likely as the people who were listening i'm sure understand what he meant.

Just to note that Catholic doctrine is not that everything the Pope says is infallible, only in certain circumstances when speaking ex cathedra. I think there has only been one so-called infallible statement in the 20th century, in 1950 on the assumption of Mary.

And none in the 21st century, I should add.

Cogito - he is not regarded as infallible, I'm sure you understand the concept of papal infallibility but just in case a helpful link

Will you agree I have a point when non-Catholics start punching people in response to perceived insults, and citing the Pope?

Sure - but why would non-Catholics care what the pope has to say?

Jessica85

I was pointing out that killing all Muslims was NOT an option so we should carry on as normal and not let it change our behaviour, but some arsehole doesn't like me posting and MN don't have time to look at context.

So I got a permanent ban

It's a pity MN didn't contact me.

Pausing I agree that to some people even respectful disagreement is taken as an insult, mostly with extremist groups. And that very sad and damaging to a tolerant multicultural society.

You got a permanent ban Once? Have you name-changed and re-registered then?

Yes. For some people "be respectful" means "agree and obey".

"the people who were listening i'm sure understand what he meant."

I don't share your confidence at all.

Why would non-Catholics care what the Pope has to say?

Because people pushing causes of all kinds perpetually come out with, "And that bloke over there, he agrees with me too."

I'm not inclined to offer such gifts to anyone propagating violence in the name of religion. Not the Charlie Hebdo killers, not Boko Haram, not those murdering gay people in Kenya and Uganda in the name of Christianity.

That's a shame Cog, all the Catholics (his major audience) I know are intelligent peace loving people who would know he was not advocating violence, and wouldn't dream of hitting anyone. In fact many of them are weary of the bad stereotype Catholics have and just wish to practise their faith in peace.

And pausing violent extremist people don't need an excuse.

Verbal provocation is not an excuse for violence, that's the wife-beater's defense

Where does the lifetime ban post fit in ?

funnyossity, there was a post a couple of pages back that has been deleted. I assume that Once1time is the person who posted that and has NC after being banned from MN.

Yes I've figured it out now, thanks.

Most normal-thinking Catholics and non-Catholics will understand that the Pope comes from a position of total opposition to any form of violence. He recently preached about defending the freedoms of religious minorities (not exclusively Christian minorities either). In fact, not only does he completely condemn violence, he is also questioning deliberate provocation by means of print and trying (by means of direct, 'human' language) to get us to see the visceral hurt it causes.

I don't think he is necessarily talking about the hurt caused to Muslim extremists either, who, as you say, choose to take offence for no good reason in order to justify completely unjustifiable violence.

He is talking about the unnecessary hurt caused to the majority of ordinary, peace-loving Muslims.

Agreed slowcommotion

To give it some context, it is a follow up to a joint declaration recently made by the Vatican together with four prominent French imams who unequivocally denounced the Paris attacks, but at the same time, urged the media to treat religions with respect. The Pope is therefore saying that deliberate provocation is unhelpful.

He is asking us to not mock religion. By implication he is giving those who feel mocked the green light to nurse their hurt and worse. When I think we all need to be a bit more "live and let live", this includes putting up with irritating would be provocateurs, like we put up with our teenagers!

If we are truly confident in our beliefs how can we be provoked? I don't get his spiritual angle on this at all. His advice is what I give to my younger child in the primary playground - essentially it's condescending and assumes an under developed self control - depressing.

I've got to leave this thread now but here is an interesting article in The Tablet (an RC weekly periodical) from a Muslim blogger, Dr Mustafa Baig, a research fellow at Exeter University that puts forward the moderate Muslim pov.

I think his point that "Two European Parliament resolutions stress that freedom of expression must be exercised within the limits of the law, and should coexist with personal responsibility and respect for human rights, religious feelings and beliefs. If cartoons or stories that failed to do this were made about Jews, blacks or homosexuals, they would never be tolerated" is a good one.

People shouldn't nastily mock religion, or race or disability or atheism or sexuality or anything else for that matter.

There is nothing wrong with a bit of satire - but sometimes it crosses the line into being a bit bullying

The Pope was being a complete arse. Let's hope that Charlie Hebdo goes after the catholic church next - wankers.