Aibu: to feel devastated that my son said this?

[kewtogetin]

Afternoon all. I'm not usually one for drama but I'm actually feeling devastated over an incident at my sons school today. He is in year 2 and at pick up time his teacher asked if she could have a word. It transpires that my son called a girl in his class 'brownie' during a lesson this afternoon. The girl is his friend, of Pakistani heritage and so does indeed have brown skin. I asked him why he said this and he replied 'because she has brown skin mummy'
I genuinely believe this incident doesn't have racist undertones but if course I understand that making fun of someone because they look different to you is also not acceptable.
Race/racism is not something we've ever spoken about at home, I don't think he has any concept of racism. He certainly hasn't heard any negative language surrounding race either at home or within the wider family. His teacher was very unhappy and he has received a warning and will miss out on the end of term treat as punishment. She also told me (grudgingly) that she is prepared 'to leave it at this, and not take it any further')
I can't understand why I'm so upset over it, I think it's because I'm worried that his teacher has him marked as a racist but also because he seems so bewildered as to why this incident is so serious. Im waiting for DH to come home from work before we talk to him together but to be honest I really don't know where to start or what to say, I'm upset with him but for him too if that makes any sense?!
Any advice gratefully received.

What a huge over reaction. He meant no harm and is bewildered so surely all that was need was a comment that it's not really polite to make personal remarks?

No need to be devastated or apologize but you do need to woman up a bit and go into bat for your son because the poor little chap hasn't done anything wrong. He's just learning. The punishment is ridiculous and I would complain.

But a young child may use brown as many black people do have lighter skin. and will probably not realise it is insulting. because to them it's just a colour neither party bat an eyelid when comparing sun tans and shoes and chatting about their day.

It is important obviously to crack down people who are being deliberately nasty obviously but it does sound like children are being treated as racists until proven otherwise merely for using terms they would have no idea are upsetting as they haven't heard it used in a nasty way.

I have to admit I didn't know where to look when dd1 said to her friend that she had brown skin and she was really pale. or when DD2 called another girl her friends name because in the observational powers of a 3 yr old she did look a bit similar.

I knew no harm.was meant nut it's the reaction from.others that does worry you if that makes sense.

and clearly it often gets mis judged.

I think flossyfoof is spot on about the severity of the punishment. At the very least, he needs the chance to earn back the end of term treat. Postponing punishment is not a good idea at all, especially with a child that age - it should be pretty immediate - missing golden time at the end of the week would be at the limit of postponed punishment for me.

I would not make a big deal of this with your son. If my DSs mention something about skin colour etc... I say, yes everyone is different, isn't it lovely, and then focus on an aspect of their personality, he is very kind, she is helpful etc.... In an effort to help them as they grow to see beyond what a person looks like.

I use this when the notice an overweight person, or extremely short/tall people as well. Yes DS, we all come in different shapes and sizes etc...

Definitely talk to his teacher as her reaction is OTT.

I wonder if the teacher isn't used to working in a class/school with mixed ethnic origins?

I came from mostly growing up in a very white area to working in primary schools across inner London. One thing I didn't expect and it took a while for me to feel comfortable with was how much especially young children would comment and discuss each other's ethnicity and skin colour. Several like the situations PPs have posted above: nothing nasty, just observing and making sense of themselves in relation to each other.

I'll admit at first I felt what I guess was a sort of well-meaning liberal politeness that we shouldn't be so crass as to notice, much less point out, that we have different skin colours and ethnicities. But I've come to think it's a really important for children to feel able to talk about this in open and inclusive ways. For me it's about celebrating a rich diversity of culture, rather than assuming a bland homogeneity out of fear of saying the wrong thing. And, of course, understanding no one should be mocked or excluded based on their ethnicity, skin colour or religion.

So, perhaps the teacher, like I was at the outset, is just hyper-sensitive to what are normal and healthy exchanges in multicultural classrooms?
I would consider asking her how she is planning to approach and support conversations about differences in ethnicity etc in her class.

I don't think he should be punished at all.

When children go through a biting phase, we take them away from that situation and explain why it's not appropriate.

The first few times a child interrupts, we correct them and show them how to speak nicely and with manners.

etc etc etc.

When children first use what we, as adults know to be an inappropriate way to speak to each other, we take them aside and explain why they can't do that, and offer alternatives.

They're LEARNING.

The punishment seems completely over the top, assuming that this is an isolated incident. I think it would only be a reasonable response if this was ongoing behaviour and the DS had been given a clear explanation of why it was wrong, and had been warned of the consequences.

As pps have said, by the time the endof term arrives, the OP's DS will have forgotten this incident and will be upset and confused if he is not allowed to take part.

OP, if I were you, I would do the following:

1. Speak to your DS about why it was wrong- I'd say something like 'it's never polite to comment on a person's appearance in that way. In the past, some people used to judge others and treat them badly simply because they had a different skin colour. Now we understand that was very wrong, so we're careful what we say as we don't want to upset others.'

2. Get a copy of the school's behaviour policy and find out if it mentions racist language. If not, what would be the usual punishment for a first time example of misbehaviour, such as calling another child a non-racist name.

3. Arrange to speak to the teacher- without your DS there. Reiterate that you support the school and have spoken to DS but feel that the punishment is overly harsh, too far distant for such a young child and that your child should be given the opportunity to 'earn back' the trip.

I remember trying to describe one of my son's friends to him when I couldn't remember the lads name. I went through all the permutations - "the one with the really short hair" "the one wearing jeans and a red top" etc. My son (mixed-race) looked at me like and said "you mean the black kid? that's Freddie" I felt a right tit for trying to avoid using the obvious description (all the other in his class were white) at the risk of sounding a bit racist.

I think this has been handled out of all proportion.

He didn't use a racist word (meaningfully or ignorantly). He didn't mean to hurt the girl. The girl wasn't hurt or offended. It was just a little jokey nickname between two very young friends, like calling someone 'long legs' or 'fidget'. Her skin is brown.

It doesn't even compare to calling a friend 'fatty' as suggested as being fat is not a positive trait. By saying that noticing someone is brown is offensive, it suggests that the browness itself is wrong or embarrassing or negative. Quite racist in itself. Extreme sensitivity to these things is just a damaging as being racist, and I think shows up some underlying discomfort with race in the teacher. Not saying she is racist, but along the lines of the previous poster who found young children discussing assorted skin colours discomforting at first.

My ex was black, I am white as fuck, his children were mixed race. They went through a phase at this age where they suddenly noticed the differences and similarities and liked to do the 'compare and discuss' thing. They were in fits of giggles at going to a family party and twigging that everyone there (apart from me) had hair like them. Everyone with the same hair. Hilarious! (to a 5 year old) It's all learning about themselves and others, it's what 5 year olds do.

I would be talking to the school as well. They do need to log and deal with racist comments. How do they define racist? Is every mention of the simple fact that people come in different colours racist to them? The punishment at the end of term seems very harsh. What your son needs is a little education about commenting on people's appearance, in any way.

Thanks for everyone's input, some good ideas here on how to approach this with my son so thankyou for that. This is an isolated incident, he's very well behaved in school, no other issues or problems. The school head has a very open door policy so I might just email her and explain why we feel the teacher over reacted and why we feel the punishment is unfair. If I try to speak to the teacher face to face I'll forget something, plus I have my toddler with me at pick up who doesn't keep still or quiet for 30 seconds. I think I'll email the head tonight, and try not to rattle on! I'm not great at being concise.

I think I'd have to say to her "yes completely agree that he needs to be aware this word can be offensive and he shouldn't use it but to stop him having his treat implies that you think he has knowingly and wilfully been offensive which I absolutely do not agree with".

^^This.

Definitely speak to the HT>

I imagine he was just describing her. Complete over reaction by the teacher. He shouldn't be punished just an explanation. Children are far more open than us. I had an Asian child in my class that went through primary being called tealeaf by his friends. He was one of the most popular boys in the school. It was never ever a racist name and no reflection on his colour although it would have probably looked so to an outsider. All the boys had nicknames in that class.

Surely, in this particular case, it's no different than if he'd called his blonde friend blondie? Obviously it's an opportunity to learn about appropriate language use, the possibility of causing offence even if it isn't intended etc etc but it was just a matter of description - he could describe a child as pale without repercussions presumably?

I would have thought that meant he was a thief, rather than that he was Asian

(Londoner)

It's definitely an over-reaction by the teacher.
As was said above, the boy is learning. He is still finding out how to describe and address people and hasn't learned that some descriptions might be taken as racist. He won't even understand what racism is.

It is likely to be counter-productive because he is now going to associate his friend's brown skin with something unpleasant - the punishment.

Definitely speak to the Head and ask for the teacher to rescind the punishment and be a little more thoughtful in future.

Yanbu at all, totall overreaction, by an new and inexperienced teacher. I would take the matter to the HT.

well-meaning liberal politeness

That is exactly the phrase I was looking for. I find almost all of this well-meaning liberal politeness is actually a manifestation of an inherent racism - as if acknowledging someone is black is some how shameful.

Black is black, white is white. There is no value judgement in that, no loading... it just is.

Obviously racism needs to be challenged but acknowledging that people have different skin colours is not in itself racist. Loading values or judgements to those skin colours is and I cannot see that this happened here.

Sounds like a massive over reaction from a new teacher. I would speak to the HT and insist the end of term punishment is lifted and replaced with a minor punishment this week. The boy is 4 ffs the end of term is April ?

You know your son and if you're sure it's genuine, I hope you support him against the teacher. When I was in primary school I was part of a group of four or five girls who would play tag in the playground during breaks. Naturally one of the group was faster than the others and, not being fast myself, I found it hard to catch her. One day it was my turn to be the chaser and I went after all the other girls first, then the bell went. The fast girl asked me why I had left her alone and I said, good naturedly, "there's no point chasing you, you're too fast!".

She reported me to the teacher for being racist, apparently thinking I had said it because she was black. The teacher called me into a 1:1 to explain and wrote everything I said in a book as a 'statement' and mentioned it would be passed to the head. I was devastated and would have been even more sad if my end of term treat had been taken away from me as punishment.

Obviously your son needs to know that calling people brownie, or any other word related to their colour, isn't acceptable, but if he didn't mean it maliciously I don't see that a punishment is needed.

On the first day of school my D's came running out of the door first shouting mummy mummy I have a new best friend.... All the other mums were aaarrrring...... Until he added I can't remember his name but he has a lovely brown face.

His mum came to speak to me the next day and said that ds was right he does have a lovely brown face and would he like to go round for tea one day :-)

He had no idea it was 'bad or wrong' he was just describing his friend.

They are still really good friends :-)

I definitely second the "he is learning" comments as several people have said; and learning sometimes means getting it wrong once, because you didn't know. He needs to be gently put right; it's only "bad behaviour" if he them deliberately repeats it.

I remember lots of occasions as a child of being gently told that what I was doing was not right, and I learned from them, and respected whoever said it.

However, I do also remember (with a shudder) as a child a few occasions of being screamed at, and then punished, because I'd done something I didn't yet know was wrong. I remember vividly the feelings of being mortified and very confused. As a teenager I had a great reluctance to take any initiative at all, in case it was wrong.

Would he have been punished for describing another child as a redhead I wonder???