To think that Charlie Hebdo...

[CruelButTrue]

...would have been more like this had it been published in Britain rather than France?

www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/what-if-icharlie-hebdo-i-had-been-published-in-britain/16443#.VLLmGXv26Sq

Of course it is more complex than free speech. But in this instance, the issue was about free speech. Personally i hope a line has now being drawn in the sand and that the message given out is this: this is the west, this is a secular society, most things are fair game for satire, including religion. And if people dont like that well, frankly, tough titty. Seriously, why should people have to worry about their lives for printing some stupid fucking cartoon of a figure that doesnt even exist. It's ludicrous. Enough is enough.

Thanks for the support, fromparistoberlin btw - I was expecting about eleven billion hostile responses about how I'm all about being an enemy of democracy so it's nice to discover a fellow traveller.

So far this thread has been fairly civil. And different opinions have been heard - which is what's it's all about. How can we condemn the murders and then swear at each other for having different opinions on what's a very emotive topic? Bit ironic !!!

Muslims don't have to say "Je suis Charlie". 99% of them respect the laws of the country they live in. Freedom of speech means freedom to say "Je ne suis pas Charlie".

If someone wants to live in a country that has sharia law then they should immigrate. Laws in France are decided by democratic process. France is a secular country. Britain is a democracy with an established religion. The decision to be secular/ christian country is decided democratically in both these countries.

Je suis Ahmed

Britian First posted them on their FB page

Cruikshank I agree broadly with you - I did listen to the cartoonist explain why he chose it and it made sense but I think it was misjudged

lots of people on R5 where comparing it with Spitting Image and Life of Brian but Islam strictly prohibits any visual representation of the prophet - it's why Mosques are filled with wonderful art but not faces

a Muslim family buried their son yesterday - killed by the same people - the image excluded them

I think we need to strive to be inclusive

Je suis Ahmed

I do feel so sad for the policemen murdered .

I think many of the people that posted the je suis Charlie on Facebook did not really think- it was a visceral reaction to tragic news

It's all so messy and sad . Off to bed

I think many of the people that posted the je suis Charlie on Facebook did not really think- it was a visceral reaction to tragic news

agreed x Night night x

I found this link to be quite interesting.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11346641/Charlie-Hebdo-founder-says-slain-editor-dragged-team-to-their-deaths.html

"
a Muslim family buried their son yesterday - killed by the same people - the image excluded them "

Those terrorists were not the same people as Ahmed and his family. They are nothing to do with mainstream muslims.

We don't know what Ahmed's family's opinon was of "Je suis charlie". Not all muslims are anti images/ cartoons of Muhammad. At the moment they are wrapped up in their grief.

www.11alive.com/story/news/nation-now/2015/01/12/new-charlie-hebdo-cover/21662267/

It shows Muhammad with a tear holding a placard saying "Je suis Charlie". Maybe Muhammand would be upset by the senseless violence and cry if he was still alive. We have no way of knowing. The prohibition on images of Muhammad is because the potential of idol worship and no one is likely to worship the cover of Charlie Hebdo.

So much to Discuss!

The OP's Link
It's ridiculous. It makes ridiculous assumptions about the people and government. Banning something? Really? A good Banning can work wonders for a small circulation magazine.. Then there is debate. The people of Britain are jot a hive mind. A cursory glance of Active on MN proves that. Then there is legislation. The wheels of government do not move quickly. Legislation must be drafted, debated and voted upon in two houses. I doubt the government would be that bothered about a small magazine.

All in all I think that article is nonsense.

Puppies or Kittens
Both are equally cute, but I have to go with puppies as they grow into dogs and I prefer dogs to cats. I live in the same house as a cat.

Dave Allen
Dave Allen would not be banned and is not banned now. BBC2 screened a few programmes about Dave Allen over Christmas, showing many of his anti-church pieces. They were brilliant.

Tim Minchin isn't banned. Jokes lampooning religion are pretty commonplace. We even had Gerry Springer: The Opera.

On the whole, the UK is pretty adverse to media censorship.

but Islam strictly prohibits any visual representation of the prophet

It forbids Muslims to make any visual representation of the prophet.

Islam requires people to be circumcised too, but I've not heard any Muslims demand that non-believers must be.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11338404/Funeral-for-French-policeman-Ahmed-Merabet-held-in-Paris.html

" And Mr Merabet's brother used the press conference to call for calm, and speak out against Islamaphobia and anti-Semitism.

"Islam is a religion of peace, love and sharing. It's not about terrorism, it's not about madness – we have nothing to do with that," he said.

"My brother was a Muslim and he was killed by people pretending to be Muslims. They are terrorists – that's it."

He added: "I speak now to all the racists, Islamaphobes and anti-Semites who confuse extremists and Muslims. Madness has neither colour nor religion.

"I want to make another point; don't tar everyone with the same brush, don't burn mosques – or synagogues. You are attacking people. It won't bring our dead back and it won't appease the families." "

Well said Malek!

Puppies

"Islam requires people to be circumcised too, but I've not heard any Muslims demand that non-believers must be."

Islam also prohibits senseless murder.

Those terrorists were not the same people as Ahmed and his family. They are nothing to do with mainstream muslims

I am really quiet shocked you think I in any way suggested otherwise!

we don't know his families opinion - correct

we do know many many Muslims opinion though - it's excluded them

Before you ask Back, my preference for puppies does not mean I have a desire to see any kittens hurt.

Ahmed was killed for attempting to uphold French law. I doubt the terrorists had any idea that Ahmed was a Muslim when they murdered him. I admire the bravery of the Muslim shop assistant who managed to hide 15 customers. These people are real muslims. They were prepared to give everything to defend the lives of the terrorist targets.

The victims of the terrorist incidents were a mixture of religions. A lot of Jews were murdered simply for being Jewish. I feel that we should be paying more attention to the feelings of the victims and their families than the feelings of unconnected fanatical muslims who don't like Charlie hebdo cartoons.

Freedom of speech and expression is too important to sacifice for political correctness.

I'm finding the nit-picking of France because it's not perfect in bloody poor taste, frankly. I am offended by it, but knock yourselves out.

Same feeling here and I do think there's a lot of France-bashing from some of you. But, hey, it's not as if we were not used to it, right?

I'm also delighted that a massive killing in my country allows some of you to make a "cas d'école" -surely this is more of a challenging topic on Mumsnet than slow-cooker recipes or moaning about MIL.

So just help yourself. And let us mourn in peace.

I think France is a brilliant country. I agree France does not deserve to be bashed.

Some posters should hand their heads in shame.

ReallyTired,

Thanks for your message. I don't deny the fact that France may appear like a racist country by many aspects. But it rings differently if it's articulated by me.

No one appréciates their country to be be put on trial, and specially at moments like these.

I am so sorry for anyone offended in France. In discussing this event its natural some issues come up for discussion, said issues are also being reported and discussed in the media globally so its not really "nit picking" to mention them.

AND, its been a shitty week in Paris so maybe some tact required hey

Maybe the "islamphobic French person" is more of a stereotype than reality, especially in the larger urban cities.

so again apologies for any offence

I hope that some good can come out of the Charlie Hebdo tragedy. I feel its a valid question to ask whether Muslims being offended by a cartoon that depicts Muhammad is their problem or the cartoonist problem. Its also a valid question to ask what drives someone to such evil acts. We do not have to condone the violence or accept the utterly pathetic excuses of a minority of muslims.

I have been impressed by the solidarity of the French in the aftermath of this tragedy. However I am horrified by the anti islamic marches in Germany. I feel that living in a multicultural society is a European issue as well as a French issue. We need to stand together to defend freedom of expression and religious tolerance.

Nothing good can come out of this slaughter because these persons don't want us good, period. True, France may have not delt so well with multiculturalism so far. But remember that we have the largest Muslim community in Europe, plus the largest Jewish one, so it does sometimes come with tensions between communities. However, thiese killings have nothing to do with dodgy situation in France. We have kept trying and trying again to understand why some people turn as loony killers : deprivation, feeling of not belonging to one's country, resentment, offensive cartoons?

At the end of the day, it seems to me the answer is just plain simpler : brainwashed fondamentalism When you have a close look at where and (alledgedly) why all terrorist attacks occured these last 10 years :

• Madrid in 2004. Reason? Implication in war in Irak
• London in 2005. Reason? As above.
• New-York in 2001. Reason? Imperialist Israel-allied
• Toulouse in 2012. Reason? Israel oppressing Palestine
• Bruxelles in 2014. Reason ? As above
• Paris in 2015. Reason? Disrespectful cartoons
• Baga, Nigéria, in 2015. Reason? Islamic secte Boko Haram solemny "condemning democracy itself as religiously forbidden" & therefore wanting to prohibit Nigerian citizen from voting in the forthcoming election.

In fact, little as to do with the situation in France or even in Europe, if you think of the numerous attacks against civilians wich take place every day in Middle East. Those djihadists are just driven by puppet masters who want to get rid of all democratic values and impose their belief to others. Therefore, ANY pretext would do, could it be a cartoon or a too short skirt.