To be shocked at how today's kids speak to their teachers?

[EyeScreamSunday]

I'm currently doing a work placement at a local school. It's a lovely school, nice staff etc but I'm really shocked at how a lot of the pupils speak to their teachers and other members of staff!

I left school 15 years ago, so I'm not really old enough to remember the days of the cane but I wouldn't have fucking dared speak to my teachers the way I've seen and heard some of the kids speak to us over the last few weeks. They will argue with you, completely ignore instructions, say "No" when asked to do something, there's a real disrespect for adults and authority. I even raised it with a teacher one day and she said, "yes, they are very confident aren't they?" Confident or just bloody cheeky? I know what I think... They are eight years old and act like cocky teenagers! In fact I dread to think what they will be like when they actually are teenagers.

Maybe I'm just getting older, but I was ever so slightly in awe of my teachers. I wouldn't have dared answer back, I had respect for them. Not all of the kids are like this, but so many are it's left me a bit shocked. What the hell has changed in the last 15 years or so?

I expect my DCs to treat teachers with the respect they are shown. Teachers who are courteous and treat students politely should be extended the same courtesy.

Err hang on a minute, this has turned into a "whos" the best teacher thing.

I said to my child that he was there to learn. Regardless of whether he personally got on with one teacher or not.

I told him there was no excuse for him to say, the teacher's methods were "wrong" blah blah blah.

He was there to learn and the teacher taught.

Whether the teacher "cared" for him or not, whether the teacher seemed to "like" anyone more. That is not what it's about.

Through life you will find people you gel with or dont.

But school is for just that.... to learn!

A minority of parents are ignorant / in denial or cant be bothered to discipline / support / help their children. A minority of teachers should not be teaching. The majority of parents want the best for their offspring. The majority of teachers want the very best for their pupils.
Its a much wider and more complex situation than teacher/ parent blame game. Society, in general is more discourteous than 50 odd years ago. Even in the eighties it was very rare to hearing swearing in the street and rarer still for a women to swear (no am not being sexist just factual). Now hang round any bus stop / street corner or walking down a street chances are you hear the word 'fuck' banded around.
TV and film have a lot to answer for, watched some 80s american films and 80s sitcoms over Christmas, undoubtedly an influence in undermining values of an earlier age. But lets not be under any illusions or rose tinted glasses, there has always been a certain amount of antisocial behaviour in society.
What we should be doing is looking at all the reasons and addressing the problems. Parents need to be allowed to discipline without fear of recrimination. Teachers should be allowed to get on and teach and should be backed up by the head / parents and school governors over discipline. We should move away from all the ridiculous bureaucratic form filing and threats of litigation.
The final point is; as a society we have taken education for-granted and forgotten its value, in cultures where children risk their lives, and or parents work all hours to be able to send their children to school these issues of discipline and respect simply don't arise (at least in my experience, albeit limited) this is because education is valued.

TInks, you are spot on! It's what I tell my son, and what I wish the parents of my pupils told their children.

I don't understand the 'teachers must earn respect' thing either, I'm not a teacher but I think a teacher who has completed a degree and teacher training (even a new teacher) should not need to further prove themselves to any 8 year old child with barely any life experience before having their respect.
Obviously teachers are not immune from losing respect if they behave badly, but they should absolutely not have to arse lick their way around the class before their reasonable requests are listened to.

I do supply work in different schools. I see a lot of bad attitude in Year 10 / Year 11. They try to argue with me, are aggressive, and are not frightened of any (if any exist!) sanctions in the school's behaviour policy. Saying that, I do also see young people who are an absolute credit to themselves. When I see good behaviour I console myself that the education system is not a lost cause!

No one has yet mentioned the dreaded "personality clash", or "miss is picking on me"

Bloody having to deal with kids and/or parents who insist I am picking on little Johnny by telling him to do stuff. And then there's a "personality clash" and "can little Johnny move to a different teacher" when the "personality clash" is precious little Johnny getting the face on about being told off when he is misbehaving.

These kids have been spoiled by their parents.

The PTA have nothing to do with the running of the school. It's the Governors you want to speak to.

I teach little ones (4 to 7 year olds). I honestly haven't seen any real change in their attitudes or behaviour in the 17 years I've been teaching. It's probably a bit different with older kids.

There are some excellent teachers out there, all 3 of my children have experienced them at some time. These were the one's they respected.

There are some dire teachers, who should not be teaching and all 3 have experienced one of these. These weren't respected at all.

Then there are some who are neither and yes they experienced these too. They had the respect of most children.

Good teachers are respected.

A PTA meeting is not the appropriate place to raise grievances, and you will be shut down from continuing to speak. If you feel you cannot continue to support the school in a fund-raising capacity, then resign, and put in writing to the relevant people your reasons.

Reading some of these posts and remembering ds 1 and 2 education I'm so glad we took our dd out of school when we did.
Children may be lippier now and I certainly don't condone that, some parents may not have as much time as previously to socialise their children.
A lot falls onto to teachers today and they are expected to be everything to everybody, but schools are rubbish.
The example of the girl continuing to read, is only bad behaviour in a school setting. If my dd didn't want to do Maths because she wanted to just finish a few pages, there would be no problem.
I am beginning to see how unnatural a school setting can be.

Finally, I don't think teachers should automatically be respected. You can't make somebody respect somebody else, just because they are bigger and older than them.

I'm big, you're small, I'm right, you're wrong, and there's nothing you can do about it. or is it the other way round?

"but schools are rubbish"

Okaaayyyy.

Clam

I know the majority of teachers do a fine job and I have a PgCE myself, although limited teaching experience (FE)

I just have a different viewpoint that's all

Although it may have to change back to a system view soon as dd may be starting school. Not too worried though its a quirky school and dd was a good girl at school.

Actually, I think in the exchange that the OP posted, the teacher lost the argument when she said 'I don't care'. We spend so much of our time encouraging children to read, that telling them she doesn't care that they are enjoying their book goes against what we want them to learn and will upset a child in the first place. It could have been handled much better.

more, if you're having trouble with automatic respect that in your view, does not need to be accorded to teachers, how do you think nurses should be treated?

It's about the job, respect is being shown to the job the person is trying to do, the role they have undertaken, it is not personal. Do you think for one fat minute that a teacher personally respects a pupil personally? No, they don't, they respect their status as person their to learn, anything more comes later. You don't have to feel respect, just behave respectfully, they are quite different things.

Bloody hell, too many personalllys and the wrong there.

echt

I think people gain respect for how they treat people, irrespective of the job they do, or the level of their job.
I don't think anybody deserves automatic respect because of their job title.

I may respect them and be really appreciative of what they do/have done but this will stem from their attitude, personality, etc.

more it's not about the job title but the function, what the person is employed to do, as I rather thought I'd said in my post.

They may well gain more respect for how well they do that job, the way they go about it, but the other person has to let them do the job, respect their right to get on with their work which lippy, rude pupils manifestly do not, as per the OP.

I think there has been a vast change in schools, but I don't think it's all to do with the children, I think it's a sign of the changes in society in general.

There are more cheeky children and there is less support for schools. I work in learning support and it is infuriating the way some parents refuse to engage helpfully with the school.

However, at the same time, I'm glad the fact that teachers were seen as always right and should never be questioned. I moved school halfway through primary 5. I'm not the cleverest person in the world, I struggle massively with spelling and grammar, but I was always good at maths. So arriving at my news school this was highlighted to the teacher, I was at least a year ahead of the class. We then got the same teacher for primary 6. I spent over a year helping my classmates or marking their work. Only when my old teacher started work at my new school and went ballistic did I do any new maths. Even thought I complained my Gran she was of the opinion that the teacher 'knew what she was doing' and wouldn't complain.

There are also some truly awful teachers. I saw a headteacher close to tears because of the standard of probationers she'd been given a couple of years ago. I'm not even talking about shouty, people with no classroom skills, endless ability to offend parents, shockingly bad spelling etc.

I think the key to a school is the management team. If you've got a good, strong HT who is firm with children and the handful of nightmare parents, backs the good staff, deals with poor staff, then that tends to filter down. A change of HT can be a disaster for schools imo.