To be shocked at how today's kids speak to their teachers?

[EyeScreamSunday]

I'm currently doing a work placement at a local school. It's a lovely school, nice staff etc but I'm really shocked at how a lot of the pupils speak to their teachers and other members of staff!

I left school 15 years ago, so I'm not really old enough to remember the days of the cane but I wouldn't have fucking dared speak to my teachers the way I've seen and heard some of the kids speak to us over the last few weeks. They will argue with you, completely ignore instructions, say "No" when asked to do something, there's a real disrespect for adults and authority. I even raised it with a teacher one day and she said, "yes, they are very confident aren't they?" Confident or just bloody cheeky? I know what I think... They are eight years old and act like cocky teenagers! In fact I dread to think what they will be like when they actually are teenagers.

Maybe I'm just getting older, but I was ever so slightly in awe of my teachers. I wouldn't have dared answer back, I had respect for them. Not all of the kids are like this, but so many are it's left me a bit shocked. What the hell has changed in the last 15 years or so?

Agree with Hatespiders to an extent. I've seen many children show perfect manners in school despite how they are spoken to by their parents. I work in a school in an area of social deprivation yet many people have commented on how polite the children in our school are. Manners are expected, valued and praised. I haven't always found it to be the same in schools in more affluent areas. OP, it appears the school you are working in don't value the teaching of respect. If you say to a child "I don't care" you get what you deserve.

That said, I do agree that the bar has lowered over the last 28 years. The general low-level disruption and poor attitude is more prevalent, exacerbated by a shift in attitude by parents. Years ago, if a child was told off, the parents would also tell off the child. Nowadays, they're more likely to steam in and tell off the teacher.

The school (namely the management team) has to be very tough to stick to their guns.

"I suppose kids who get away with being disrespectful and rude to their parents will think it acceptable to speak to all adults like that"

They may think that, but it is our job as adults/teachers to show them pretty sharpish that it's not. I don't accept anyone being rude to me, least of all children in school - and that's not to disrespect their value as human beings; it's just that they will not get anywhere much in life by continuing with that attitude, so it's our job to set them straight.

Why is it that some teachers will preside over chaos, and others can command silence just by walking in the room?

It depends on the class mix as much as the teacher, though - I consider myself to be a good teacher and I have some classes where I will walk in and they fall silent, with others I am battling for more-or-less the entire lesson.

I would never ever tolerate rudeness though and always pick a pupil up on it and make them apologise. Likewise, I am never rude to a pupil.

I agree with echt
If teachers aren't supported by school management it means pupils can misbehave if they feel like it, and they know it.
Parental attitudes and government targets are making it extremely difficult for that support to be forthcoming. Some SLT are simply not interested in supporting staff anyway. I left teaching having experienced that lack of support in my last post.

"There are some children we cannot set straight though, and that is not because we lack authority or presence in the classroom."

Yes, although I don't think the OP was talking about those extremes, but a more generalised casual attitude/rudeness.

Why is it that some teachers will preside over chaos, and others can command silence just by walking in the room?

1. Time served in a school. Teacher who has been there 30 + years will command respect over an NQT or student or supply - or someone new to the school.

1. Status within a school. Deputy head walks in - silence. NQT walks in - no.

1. Ethos of the school. School that blames bad behaviour on bad teaching will never get silence by a teacher walking in.

Victim blaming is not okay but teacher blaming is. I had a can of Coke chucked over me as a student - do NOT tell me it was a personality failing or weakness on my part! As I have never had this happen before - I think if it was something to do with my innate nature I would have noticed!

Years ago, if a child was told off, the parents would also tell off the child.

This.

I am that parent who backs up the teacher - except if the teacher is being manifestly unfair or unreasonable. Which is very, very rare.

DS is a really disrespectful child who doesn't change gears easily and would have trouble leaving a book. It's not about being defiant, he just doesn't handle transitions well and has poor empathy. Going all authoritarian on him just makes him put his back up. Some teachers soon spot better ways to assert their requests without having to make it into a direct conflict.

They might be among are the worst brats in the school but no worse than the worst brats I remember from my own 70s youth. I have always thought teachers had a terrible time of crowd control & discipline problems (not from me, hasten to add).

I think situations can be exacerbated by ordering/confrontation.

But then that goes to show things HAVE changed, doesn't it? Our teachers certainly barked orders at us (left school in 2000.)

One of the basic "rules" is not to get into a confrontation situation - always leave yourself (and the child) a way out. And you don't need to bark orders at children in order to get them to comply. In the main, a calm assertive instruction or request (that doesn't sound as if you're begging!) should be enough.

I know a mum who teaches her child to do as he's told only if he thinks it's a good idea too. She claims no child should be taught to follow orders from adults unquestioned. He is taught to ask "why?" to his teachers following a request and if he doesn't find the answer acceptable then he is taught to say politely that he doesn't agree.

And how's that working out for him in school, olivia?

I once met a teacher who on the subject of respect said that these days respect has to be earned by teachers rather than given, and she didnt think that was such a bad thing. I'm inclined to agree with her.

I love how your example of poor behaviour is a child wanting to read!

I've heard that too, redexpat. Usually from teachers who struggle with discipline.

Of course reading is poor behaviour if the child should be doing something else. I don't read a book when someone is talking to me and trying to teach me.

I once met a teacher who on the subject of respect said that these days respect has to be earned by teachers rather than given, and she didnt think that was such a bad thing.

I think you can respect some teachers more than others, but all teachers should be respected.

Actually, I'll clarify that last snippy comment.
Good behaviour management is nothing to do with shouting or chucking your weight about. So I suppose if there's a teacher insisting pupils respect him/her but isn't showing basic courtesy and respect themselves, then they probably won't get very far. However, I don't think that teachers should be begging the kids to like them either, before they'll deign to do as they're told.

And with some children, that reading book situation is exactly the sort of scenario that can be engineered to one-upmanship or manipulation on the part of the child. (Note that I said some children). It's kind of like "look, you can't tell me off because I'm reading a book and you're supposed to want us to read." Well, yes we do, but not when we're clearing up in order to start maths on time. In that scenario, by insisting on finishing your chapter, you're not "being good," but actually being obstructive. And, for some kids, that's deliberate and it needs dealing with.