To be shocked at how today's kids speak to their teachers?

[EyeScreamSunday]

I'm currently doing a work placement at a local school. It's a lovely school, nice staff etc but I'm really shocked at how a lot of the pupils speak to their teachers and other members of staff!

I left school 15 years ago, so I'm not really old enough to remember the days of the cane but I wouldn't have fucking dared speak to my teachers the way I've seen and heard some of the kids speak to us over the last few weeks. They will argue with you, completely ignore instructions, say "No" when asked to do something, there's a real disrespect for adults and authority. I even raised it with a teacher one day and she said, "yes, they are very confident aren't they?" Confident or just bloody cheeky? I know what I think... They are eight years old and act like cocky teenagers! In fact I dread to think what they will be like when they actually are teenagers.

Maybe I'm just getting older, but I was ever so slightly in awe of my teachers. I wouldn't have dared answer back, I had respect for them. Not all of the kids are like this, but so many are it's left me a bit shocked. What the hell has changed in the last 15 years or so?

Whats with the "weak" teacher thing? The children shouldn't be doing any of this in the class. Nothing but books should be brought out from their bags ever.

The parent should make sure of this.

Someone being less deserving of respect? really?

I told my son this and yes, I did check his bag and told him under no circumstances was anything else needed. He had a phone to contact me in emergencies due to me being a working parent. I also told him if his phone was ever pulled out in class and I heard about it, it would be confiscated and he or I would have to use another route.

"Parents" are responsible for these things not the teachers.

I was a primary teacher for 30 years and taught 8 year-olds for decades, followed by 12 year-olds.
The thing is a teacher gets the class they deserve I'm afraid. A polite, responsive and well-behaved class is achieved by sticking to your boundaries and limits, and by never, ever shouting. You insist on your standards and never crack or give in. You praise and reward good behaviour and good work. You never resort to sarcasm or spiteful remarks. You never have favourites or pick on individuals. You have plenty of fun and present interesting lessons. You are organised and prepare properly. Lessons begin and end in an orderly fashion. You let the pupils know you are strong, respect-worthy, unshakeable and that you are very fond of every one of them. If you can achieve all this, the children will never speak to you with rudeness. If a new pupil arrives and has a lack of respect the others will be shocked and horrified. Your class will love you and cry at the end of the year when they have to move up.

You must be joking, Hatespiders.

I think your school policy doesn't help and that the attitude of parents is a huge contribution

There are lots of lovely students out there

Move schools

I applaud you Hatespiders.

What did you do about mobile phones etc?

How did you handle parents?

You are so right TheTroublewithAngels.

It's called bad "parenting".

I have been known to use sarcasm. My students like it actually.

No, I'm not 'joking', nor is this 'absolute nonsense' or 'pure tosh'.
I taught in one of the most deprived areas of Glasgow for part of my career.
No I am not a school inspector, nor do I work in teacher training. I'm seventy and retired. Either you are calling me a liar or you accept that what I say is true. Whichever, I found my teaching methods as described above were most effective in engendering respect from my classes.
If teachers nowadays are finding it impossible to prevent rudeness and gain their pupils' respect, perhaps I had better become a teacher trainer.

Hatespiders has a point. And yes, I would say the parents are at the root of the vast majority of bad behaviour, but that does not mean teachers are excused from tackling it. Someone doing their makeup in class should get an instant sanction, ditto someone playing phone games. They should not simply be ignored whilst other pupils who are working get told off. A teacher who does that is weak. Whilst a strong teacher may not be able to engage all children in a class given that some will be getting appalling messages about behaviour from home, a strong teacher will do better than a weak one.

Children know what they are dealing with, and will respect the teacher who applies consistent discipline. That is not by the way an excuse for them to behave badly by any means, it's just the way things happen.

What Hatespiders says is simply not the case. A teacher could do all she says and still get treated like dirt.

That is not by the way an excuse for them to behave badly by any means

No it's not, where does it come from then? It comes from home.

Teachers are NOT parents. Teachers shouldn't be expected to "discipline". They are there to impart what they have learned and pass it on.

That should be all thats required. Not walk into a battlefield ever day.

The child should be taught how to behave appropriately at home.

Tinks teachers have always had to maintain order in the classroom. With well parented and well behaved children that is a simple matter - tell everyone to pay attention, start the lesson, conduct the lesson, finish the lesson. However, there are children - and this has always been so - who don't behave, usually because they have not learned to do so (though there can be extenuating circumstances). The reality is that teachers have to deal with those children. How they do this is part of what defines them as good teachers or not so good teachers.

I think hatespiders has a point too. I had a few teachers when i was at school (i left 20 years ago) who naturally held their classes attention and respect,to the point where anybody being rude or noisy would have got an 'errr, what the hell' look from the whole class. They didn't shout, they were firm, funny and fair, and they were excellent teachers who taught inspiring lessons. The same class with a weak, nasty and/or uninspiring teacher ran riot. That isn't to excuse the running riot, but those teachers who struggle with discipline may not necessarily be aware of how different teachers in the same school manage the same classes with conspicuously more success, because they aren't watching how others teach, and the colleagues in question are unlikely to be bragging about it! Being a natural disciplinarian is I suspect a talent that is both quite rare and very hard to transmit, but there is no doubting that it exists.

As for the op,you do know that people have been bemoaning falling standards of discipline among the next generation ever since the time of Plato?! Its rather unlikely that this really is the generation where things have truly fallen apart, after 3 millennia of the same refrain. More likely, you are just getting old

The problem is that sometimes as a parent you really do have to challenge a teacher and it's a difficult balancing act. I remember when dd had a teacher who was pretty useless. There was an incident when out of the blue she accused dd and another child of not handing in some work when they certainly had. Dd was off sick the next day but the teacher sent a message to the effect that if the homework wasn't handed in the next day they would be in big trouble. Dd was and is a born worrier and insisted on redoing the work although it was very difficult as she hadn't got the books and data she needed, and because she was in the latter stages of a migraine. Rather against dd's will I sent in a note explaining about the problems she'd had with a rather pointed comment about how it was unfortunate that the original homework had been mislaid after she handed it in. I received no reply at all, but a few days later the work was given back - and dd and friend were given the original versions of the work in question, with no explanation or apology.

I know anyone can make a mistake, but most teachers in that situation would have had the grace to apologise and would have earned respect by doing so. That was only one instance of this teacher's general uselessness, and in fact she disappeared after half a term to everyone's relief. But she really did make it virtually impossible for us as parents to back her up, and frankly I wasn't going to lie and tell dd that she was in the right when she blatantly wasn't

I don't think the OP is showing their age at all. I've been teaching for 36 years and saw a distinct decline in manners over that time in the UK. It coincided with the OFSTED/teacher-bashing years. I now teach in Australia, and it couldn't be more different. The default position of students is one of politeness, and no, I do not teach in a selective school. We have our doozies much as in the UK, but the key is the staff are supported by the SLT and the students know this.

I disagree with nearly everyone and agree with OP.
I think society has changed and the lack of respect towards people generally is just disgusting.
I too must be very old fashioned. I'm not apologising for that. I'm proud.

And unlike most of the posters, I don't blame the parents. The way many children speak to their parents is disgusting.

My ds 10 speaks to be in a disrespectful way. All his friends speak to their parents and others in a way that I just can't accept.

When i spoke to Camhs about it, and told her that I would never have spoken to my mum that way, now, or back then , she said my expectations were too high.
I gave up, inside, there and then.

I've taught primary (7-11) children for over 28 years. I rarely, if ever, raise my voice; I rely on the raised eyebrow and the unspoken "I beg your pardon?" look, mostly. It works.

You can't teach a trainee teacher how to do it, beyond the basic few behaviour management tricks. Most of it comes from experience (not very helpful) and developing that "presence." Why is it that some teachers will preside over chaos, and others can command silence just by walking in the room?

I think that the relationship you develop with your class is key; they need to see that you like them and care for them, you treat them fairly and will listen to them, and that you have a sense of humour. We have lots of fun, but at the end of the day, they know who's boss. I had the nicest class in the world last year and we had a great relationship and, from all accounts, they loved the year (and me ). This year's teacher lost patience with one of them on Friday afternoon and said he was to go to Mrs X. Child smirked. Teacher had second thoughts and said, "Actually, no, maybe you should go to Mrs Clam." Child visibly blanched and the class collectively groaned on his behalf.

Rudeness? Never tolerate it. Even those kids from the most difficult backgrounds know when to use manners. Expect nothing less.

Annunziata that's it. I would never have answered a teacher back or attempted to challenge them ever. I suppose kids who get away with being disrespectful and rude to their parents will think it acceptable to speak to all adults like that, and obviously that includes teachers.