AIBU re: child maintenance and bonus

[maintenancequestion]

Posting on behalf of DP.

DP and his ex agreed he would overpay monthly child maintenance and he would keep his bonus (if he got one). Ex liked this as it was less risky for her and she could plan better. She since found out (through his family) that he got a big bonus and wants a cut of that too. He thinks if she would have gone down the standard CM route and then took a cut of his bonus in the first place then it would have worked out better for her. My suggestion is to pay her the difference and then from now pay her standard child maintenance as calculated online, plus a percentage of any bonus he gets. Question is - what should the %age of the bonus be? We want it to be fair on all parties.

In addition she has said she will go to CSA which we have no issue but will either party have to pay any fee for this service?

If she does go through CSA I assume that when we move in they will automatically tell him to pay less as I have a son who would live with us. (whereas if we did a private arrangement he would likely just pay her the same regardless of living with me and my son.)

Thanks

assuming it's to give more attention to your joint child then yes he might. Your current boyfriend appears happy to over pay the minimum to make the mother of his children more comfortable. I think wanting what's best for your children is pretty normal.

Sadly, wanting the ex-wife to suffer (more than she already has) also seems pretty normal according to these boards.

I'm just going to say this. You have to examine your motives here. Is this really your jealousy of the ex-wife that's behind this post? She certainly doesn't appear grasping to me. You have a combined income of around £200k - she has around £20k? I can understand why your boyfriend is generous.

I see what you're saying CLJ52 but my ex would rather take the pay cut himself and see more of our child. And to be honest I can understand that. Why should he pay for me to be having fun when it could be him! Our child doesn't do childcare out of school so it is shared between us.

My partner is happy to pay his share which allows his ex to make some choices about her life. He also contributes generously to his children's savings for the future (as is right as he can afford to.) What he isn't happy with is paying way more than the kids and her need as part of a divorce settlement because since their split she has decided she doesn't want to work as much. (when throughout the marriage she worked FT and used childcare.) Anyway that's another story...

Do I think she should suffer? No, not at all.
Do I think she should pay her way too? Yes I do.

Definitely not jealous of her. Just frustrated by her constant poverty pleading when she has made some choices which have led to that. (Kids are both in school and her job is vvv flexible so she could work more but chooses not to.) Granted she didn't choose to split up but many of us find ourselves in situations we don't choose to be in and have to manage them.

Our combined income doesn't really matter at the moment as we live separately. My DP has less disposable income every month that her due to their living situations (Him in large, expensive house rattling around and hating it but trying to sell and her in modest but comfortable 3 bedder in nice area which she chose and likes.)

I guess there is a lot of background which I haven't put in here which means I don't have much sympathy for her. I guess I have got the answers I was after so thanks for everyone's contributions.

with all due respect....how do you know the ex has decided she 'doesn't want to work as much'? Single parenting is complex and difficult and for even the most mundane 9 - 5 job with no work to take home and no responsibility that you can get to easily, dealing with childcare, children being ill, fitting in school work, cleaning the house and all the thousand other things that need doing in a day can seem insurmountable. I am over 5 years divorced and work full time in a demanding, professional role but there are absolutely days when it's all too much and I come home, have a cry, and take out my bank statements and try to work out if I can afford to cut my hours. I haven't done it - because of my age and lack of pension at this point - but if I could, I would! And frankly, any decisions I make along those lines are bog all to do with the ex or the new partner - it would never be about 'not wanting to work' and everything to do with finding a reasonable balance for both the benefit of my own mental health and my children generally.

The only fair way of working out maintenance from the situation you describe is, in my opinion, to agree a percentage of total salary and bonuses each year and ensure it is paid. If that means the ex gets X% of every bonus, then that's what it means. It's fair and reasonable and no one needs to get upset or annoyed. Please don't use a decision on the part of the ex to go to the CSA as a means by which maintenance can be reduced or manipulated or in some way avoided because it will only ever back fire on the children. I have an ex who doesn't pay maintenance because he's self employed - he could afford something but chooses not to. I can afford to bring up my children myself - it isn't really an issue - except there is a massive (and I mean massive) chip on my shoulder as a result. My ex's chip is equally as big because as far as he's concerned, he shouldn't have the CSA on his back and I'm just 'money-grabbing' because he knows I am OK financially. I didn't have children on my own, I shouldn't be paying for them on my own. There is unnecessary tension between us. And at some point, the children will understand that their dad couldn't give a stuff whether or not they were fed and watered as long as he was getting one over on me (and it was him who left, for another woman, just to be clear!). I hope they are able to work it out with him but if they don't, he'll have only himself to blame. Don't give the ex and the children any kind of ammunition because at some point, it will back-fire!

Wow that is a big bonus.

Come up with a private agreement.

well said fedupbutfine

She told him she wasn't in fit mental health to work as much since he left. (She has been on MH meds since before they were together.)

You're right though. I'm better off our of it.

Poor you fedupbutfine... that sounds really harsh of your ex. Good for you for supporting your kids. I

I should add she's one of those who has threatened to "use" MH in ways in the past.

I have big empathy MH issues

Suddenly being left to bring up dcs on your own with significantly reduced income isn't great for most people's MH imho

I agree!!
Luckily for her she hasn't had to deal with reduced DISPOSABLE income as she CHOSE to move out of the family home.

There is a calculator on CSA website so put earnings in theres your answer!
I can assure you your salary is not considered at all.

just because she made a choice to leave doesn't mean she should have to somehow 'suffer' with reduced maintenance, does it? Shit happens. Marriages break down. Don't waste spend your life hating someone you actually know very little about, that you don't need to be friends with and who should if you are very lucky, have very little impact on your life. You should also remember that the picture painted of her by your partner is what he wants you to see, not necessarily who she is or indeed, how the relationship actually was. There are always two sides to the story, although so many people seem to forget that.

I really don't warm to new girlfriends who use the phrase "one of those".

Presumably she left the big FMH because she knew she couldn't afford it? (It's why I left mine)
So she could have had a Mesher Order potentially and tied up his equity for a long time, but she hasn't. Not totally money grabbing, is she?

Perhaps she didn't want to stay in the FMH because it was full of happy memories for her, of a marriage she hoped would last forever? Or maybe she has memories of him being a total arsehole there and just wanted the fresh start.

It would do for my MH to be dumped and see my XH happy with a new woman a couple of months later.

And in the interests of declaring bias and chips on shoulders... Yes, I am XW who has (reliably) been told that their XH has told the new gf that he's had to "pay". And it is total and utter bullshit. I don't even claim hundreds of pounds in maintenance that I could, with one call to CMS.

Do not call her money grabbing or work shy, when the maintenance and house situation is agreed by your boyfriend. He doesn't like it, he shouldn't have married.

it's pretty obvious what the answer is.
go to the maintenance calculator on the .gov website.

Here are some examples:
If he earns £80k a year, his weekly income is £1583 per week and he's got 0 other children in his care, (assuming he houses his (1?) child only once per week of less) then he needs to pay £162 per week (at least)

If he gets a £40k bonus then his yearly income is £120k.
so take £120k divide it by 52 and you get a weekly income of £2307, under the same circumstances he'd now need to pay £232 per week (at least)

At the start of the year, your partner and his ex sat down and thought, I'll probably get £80k basic wage, and about a 10k bonus so that's 90k per year and a weekly maintenance amount of £180, he's been paying that, so sure, at the end of the year if he hadn't got a bonus, he'd have over paid by £18 per week. but that's not the case, if he ended up with a £40k bonus then he's underpaid by £52 per week.

You might think that his ex wife made a gamble and lost so tough, but that's not the case, he has a duty to pay maintenance (at least) AT THAT RATE. and if she goes to the CSA she will win this argument, and he'll end up paying even more to use the service.

What I would suggest he does in future is: pay at the rate that he's doing now. (e.g. £180 per week). (guessing he'll get a 10K bonus)
and then at the end of the year he uses his p60 to work out what he was actually paid each week, and puts that number into the calculator.

If it works out he overpaid, then walk away knowing that he did the right thing for his kid, if it works out he underpaid, then figure out by how much, (in this case £52 per week so £2704 for the year) and make a lump sum cash payment to ensure that he makes at least what he'd have to pay if his ex went to the CSA.

If it works out that he was paying more than he has to when his average weekly income is figured out (including the bonus), then tell her that she doesn't "deserve" his bonus, if he's underpaid when earnings over the year are averaged, then she is entitled to some of it.
(you don't need to guess, there is an online calculator)

If he makes contributions to his kids savings, then that's great, but has nothing to do with maintenance.

Basically, your idea that they reached and agreement, that she somehow gambled and lost is wrong.
Providing for your child is not a gamble, it's a requirement, (both legal and moral.)

Tgye most important legal issue is is there a court order setting all this out. Ours says for example that I pay 5 sets of school/university fees whoever the children live with (I am the higher earner). Have they got a final financial "consent order" or sealed court order following finalisation of the finances in their divorce. Even if they have they can apply to vary that and the new CMA rules I believe now have charges so it is better to reach agreements than let the Government take that cut. (My ex pays nothing and I paid him so that's all pretty simple, but unfair, for me).

Your boyfriend already has commitments to other children and some of his money is contributing to allowing them to have their mother more available

This is part of the point -- high earning men generally rely on the SAHM at home to pick yup most of the "wife work." Men's careers & earning capacity can sky-rocket, while their stay at home partners lose financial independence, pension contributions, and future earning ability.

Your boyfriend's exW may well have given up a lot (including her good mental health) to raise your boyfriend's children, and service his career.

So OP some of your comments on this thread are not just unreasonable, they sound grabby and nasty. Your comments don't reflect well on you.

I suspect his ex isn't a high flier and as such, you think she should be punished for her 'lifestyle choices'. I've seen it happen a few times.

This man is your lover. 'Marry well means will divorce nicely'. People who snip against giving extra to their own children are people to be avoided.

This from bitofanoddone -- and I too, work with (mostly) men on those sorts of salaries. When I see some of the penny-pinching attitudes the divorced ones amongst them have towards paying for their own chldren while pocketing bonuses which are around the average per annum salary, I lose all respect for them & their new, younger models.