AIBU to think that, if I've not got better yet, I'm probably not going to?

[onestepforwardtwentystepsback]

Long story short: had a late miscarriage nearly a year ago with an unplanned and controversial (but eventually welcomed) pregnancy. Had a bit of a breakdown but got superficially on track, with some pills, the support of my GP and boss, some counselling and time off work. I wasn't really sorted though and decided that getting pregnant again was the only answer to end the depression and feeling that life was pointless if I didn't have another baby. My teenage son is the centre of my world normally but the loss of that baby threw me massively. Got pregnant again in November but had an early miscarriage/ chemical pregnancy.

Since then, I have gone between realising that I have to sort myself out, my precarious relationship out and make a rational decision about where next and just wishing I was dead so that I don't have to keep trying and trying when nothing seems to work on a wider basis that just a moment or a day.

The counselling wasn't massively helpful because I wouldn't talk about the miscarriage and she didn't think it was helpful to force me. So I just whinged about how shit life was each week. I started CBT recently and that sort of helps but I only have 2 sessions left. I have pushed away most of my friends and I find other people and their happiness (and babies/ pregnancies) really hard to cope with.

I do have a couple of great friends left who've refused to be pushed away who I talk to, and my GP has been great, but they just keep telling me it will all improve and I think 'yeah, but it's been nearly a year and I still wish I was dead, so I don't think I can believe you'.

This week, my GP told me she was pregnant and said she'd understand if I wanted to see one of the other GPs. Sounds really stupid but it really upset me because I could tell she'd been dreading telling me as I see her each fortnight and she's been a real support. It made me realise how bad things are that people can see how badly damaged I still am by all this. She must think I'm a bit pathetic, though she doesn't show it. Friends who are pregnant are the same - I've just become this miserable person who's stuck in the past.

How can I believe that life will get better when the evidence suggests otherwise? Can life improve even if I don't have another baby? If I try and get pregnant again, what if I'm still not well and end up depressed and pregnant and can't cope?

It's all such a mess.

I don't get the pathetic link at all. You wouldn't talk about having a girly weekend with your mum to a friend whose mum has died from cancer, would you? Even if it was a good few years ago? One would have to be missing a sensitivity chip not to tread cautiously with pregnancy news when someone has been known to have had a miscarriage. It doesn't say anything about you being damaged.

Absolute rot about you not being likely to get better. Really. Utter rot. I would have a very frank conversation with your psychiatrist about what has been tried so far and what other options could be looked at. There are also different types of counselling and therapy. Sometimes you need to shop around to find something that speaks to where you're at in your life.

I lost twins. I know how hard it is.

I don't think your GP or friends think you're pathetic or stuck in the past. As Saturn says, it's common sense for them to be sensitive to your loss.

2 miscarriages in a year, and last one barely a month ago - of course you're not feeling better yet. A late miscarriage, when you think you're out of the woods, must be a particularly big shock, so not surprised it's still so hard a year on.

Statistically, even if you did nothing, your depression would resolve in time (based on talks I've heard by a psychiatrist colleague), but your depression means you can't believe that - it's the nature of the illness. Also, it makes sense to try and speed up the process.

If CBT is helping at all, could you afford any private sessions after your NHS sessions end? There's nothing wrong with not wanting to talk about your miscarriage to your counsellor - just means that type of therapy is not right for you right now.

I had 2 miscarriages in a year and felt very similar. I promise you life does get better.

It's just weird though. I didn't even intend to be pregnant with the first miscarriage. I wasn't initially thrilled at all. Didn't cope very well or make any quick decisions. Felt very guilty.

The CBT is good and I would happily pay but she doesn't do private stuff. I have been referred for some more intensive CBT but it's so tiring having to tell more and more people my story and have them pitying me. I hate it. I saw a psychiatrist for the first time last week; my GP had referred me due to her not knowing what to do next with medication, but the appointment was basically cancelled last minute.

I don't know if I can keep going to my GP now. I think I will be unable to avoid thinking about the fact that she's pregnant and secretly pitying me. It's become like a phobia - babies and pregnant women - because both things just remind me of everything I've lost and make me cry.

And friends DO wish I'd just move on. I lost my best friend over this. I'd become 'too hard work'.

I had/ am though. I get it.

Thank you both, by the way. .

And sorry for both of your losses.

I had 2 miscarriages last year and for the first few months of this year (last miscarriage was last boxing day) was only very superficially well again, as you put it. Inside I was a wreck and slowly getting more and more self-destructive.

I admit, I did get pregnant again but before I did, something clicked and I decided to sort myself out. I know it's not as simple as saying "ok I'll just be happy now" but I can't explain it, I just sort of made peace with the unpredictability of the future (not knowing whether I'd get pregnant again - getting pregnant was no short ride) and things got easier. Yes, a short while later I was pregnant again but the turning point had already been reached if you know what I mean. I was back on the right track. I learnt that the cliche of time healing is actually quite true.

I am so sorry for your losses. Somehow you will make sense of things as time goes by. When I think back to how I was in January, I couldn't imagine ever feeling happy or positive again, and it took a while but I got there. It's so fresh for you, don't push yourself, just take your time and grieve and work things out at your own pace.

You've had such a rough time, no wonder you're struggling, an in some ways I tihnk, because you are almost giving yourself a hard time about still funding life hard, that it's actually making it harder to improve and feel better if that makes sense? I know when Ive had periods of depression after major life upsetting events, I've found it harder to see the possibility of life looking brighter whilst giving myself a hard time about how long it's taking me to recover, and then adding feeling guilty about it to the original issue! Can yu or have you, given yourself permission to accept that it will take as long as it takes to feel better? Treated yourself like a loving friend would if they saw you suffering, rather than the more judgemental voice we use towards ourself?
Oh and I don't think your GP is pitying you, I think she is one of the lovely ones that really does care about her patients and so doesn't want to make it harder for you to recover xx

I have hoped that time would heal, as I kept getting told it would. But then, yeah, I've kept getting frustrated with myself because it isn't really improving. That then gets reinforced by others getting frustrated - my boss, for example, with his 'it's been a long time and I thought you'd be sorted and back to normal now', and then, in particular, the loss of my closest friend because of how I've become. I can be angry at both of them (which I am) for being judgemental of me, but I also understand their frustration because I feel it too.

So I do try to be kinder to myself about it but it's hard when other people make you feel shit about it.

There are only a few people who know the full story of what's happened who get it properly and don't make me feel shit. The GP is one. That's why I'm a bit gutted that I don't think I'll be able to go to her anymore. Or I could keep going and try - I'm going to have to be able to face pregnancies and babies at some point without having a meltdown - but I can't see that happening.

I honestly used to be a strong person. Now I'm really not.

First of all big massive ((((hugs)))) and im sorry for your losses, there is an organisation called careconfidential that does baby loss counselling xx

onestep I think that your depression is a very normal reaction to what you've been through these last 12 months.
It will take time, and it's right that it should.
If you'd broken your leg, twice, in the last 12 months, you'd think that anyone telling you to walk on it was crazy. When you do start to walk on it again then you'd do a little, with crutches & rest in between.
Christmas is an emotional marathon. Don't even try to run the distance. Join in for the little bit you can, then take a break, with your feet up. What (who) emotional crutches can you rely on for support in RL?
Take your time to heal, you need time, you can't run on a broken leg & feeling depressed is an understandable, natural response

The biggest problem with time is that, if I can't get back to fully functioning pretty quickly, my job is screwed. There's already been suggestions of stepping down from my fairly senior role and, while my union are being helpful, I don't think the amount of time off I've had is ideal (a few weeks overall, but that's a lot).

I really need my job. It's like the one normal thing left.

A broken leg would be much easier, thinking about it. Nobody would give me grief for 'not trying'. I AM.

I'm so sorry that you have lost a child late in pregnancy, and then had another miscarriage on top. The counseling you've had so far sounds very superficial. I know it is really really hard when you are already depressed - and it's expensive as well - but I think I would try to find a therapist to work with more deeply and over a longer period - preferably one with particular expertise/interest in bereavement and if possible especially losing a baby. You may need to build up a relationship over quite a while before you are able to talk openly about what you have experienced and what it has stirred up for you. I don't think it's surprising by the way that you are finding this loss especially hard to bear despite having mixed feelings about the pregnancy to start with: I think it's often the case that grieving is more complicated and difficult if the relationship was complex for some reason.

CBT has good short-term results for mild to moderate depression but to be honest you sound lower than that. The CBT techniques may be helping to keep you going but in my experience they don't really help with the deeper issues.

There is a good guide to finding a therapist, and a link to an online directory here: www.bacp.co.uk/seeking_therapist/right_therapist.php

Your GP might also have some suggestions.

Hi Onestep, yup, it's rubbish when you have to start all over again with a new therapist. If you have the energy to shop around just once more and find one, they're yours long term though.

WRT your GP, it's hard not to feel a little betrayed, maybe? All these bloody women keep getting pregnant ;).

Whether or not the baby was wanted isn't really relevant. Some women grieve heavily after terminations for non-medical reasons, too. I think pregnancy can be pretty visceral as emotions go.

If you're working in the public sector, I would have thought you would qualify for many monyhs of sick leave before having to make a decision about your job. Is it being treated as ill health or bereavement?

People can see a broken leg so they have something concrete to understand.
Most people will understand how you are feeling & what you are going through; some will choose not to, because that is easier for them or suits their agenda.
What you must hold onto is that your feelings are normal & natural. You've had 2 pregnancies, (could have both pre & post natal depression), & lost 2 babies.....in 12 months.
You are bound to be depressed, anyone who can't understand this is being not just unreasonable, but downright cruel.
With maternity-related depression, your employment rights are protected in law.
An employer is not being kind, "allowing," you to be off work. Your employer has to operate within the law, including a phased return & reasonable adjustments if your Dr thinks that is necessary.
Look after yourself, give yourself time to grieve, give your body the physical time that it needs to recover from 2 pregnancies, (are your iron levels OK?), & your hormones time to recover.
If your Dr says you need more time & your employer puts pressure on you, get in touch with your union. If your local rep is no good, go to regional then national. But most of all, be kind to yourself & give yourself the TLC you need for long term physical & mental recovery.

I'm naturally fairly mistrusting of therapists and counsellors due to family experiences, but I like this one and the 'next tier' that my GP referred me to would be with someone who I met for an assessment and also seems ok. But I get that paying (which I can afford, and did with the counselling) might be better as I can choose how long it's for etc. I find the CBT easier as it's about moving forward rather than looking back, but the GP and one of my friends thinks that I need to talk about the root of it all before I'll move on. I just can't even think about that time. I can't imagine having the energy to look for someone new right now but will see how the next round of CBT goes (as I don't think they're keen on mixing therapies simultaneously).

Sandy, betrayed maybe, but more uncomfortable. I avoid pregnant women like the plague, and sitting in a room with one, spilling my darkest feelings about how I feel, knowing she'd be pitying me for not having what she has would feel shit. Most of the friends that I've cut off have been cut off because they have babies or might even potentially do so and I can't cope with the idea that they might announce a pregnancy, or cope with my own reaction.

I know that this needs dealing with. I was fine with it all when I had my positive test with the recent pregnancy. But I wasn't suddenly totally ok. I worried it would go wrong and I worried I wouldn't cope with a baby. I guess that's why I'm not rushing into another pregnancy.

Work-wise, I initially had a couple of weeks off, suggested by my boss. Then back full-time. Then a couple of weeks off because I wasn't coping. Then a few months of phased return/ reduced hours, which, in practice, meant a couple of hours of time out here and there. The work (almost) all got done, but sometimes in evenings. Then we had the 6 week summer holiday and I tried full-time in September but I could see things going rapidly downhill again: not sleeping, not eating/ making myself sick and crying loads. Asked boss for reduced hours again, as per my GP sicknote and he said no: either fully off or fully in. Eventually, with help of union rep, compromised on one afternoon off a week for CBT. It's been ok. Better in work than off feeling useless, suicidal and like a failure.

But then I had 2 days off for recent miscarriage and returned to be told I would be having an absence hearing. Then HR told boss he couldn't do that because it was pregnancy-related, but the depression is not seen as pregnancy-related as it's so long on from the pregnancy. If that makes sense. So any more time off and I'm screwed. I can do OK face in work most of the time and it really confuses my boss: "but you've seemed loads better recently". He doesn't understand that my mood totally fluctuates. Every period is traumatic and sets me off back down memories that I don't want to have, and reminds me that I'm not pregnant.

I hadn't thought about iron levels. Will get GP to test, if I can ever go back there.

Thank you all for your kindness and ideas. I'm not giving up yet. I just don't see when this will end. I'm already spiralling as I come up to the 'anniversary'. Feels like a year should be enough. But also feels like I can't control how I feel, regardless of time :(

Last January, I dealt with things really badly. Tried to pretend it hadn't happened, refused initially to take time off work, wouldn't talk to anyone about it or acknowledge it, wouldn't go to the doctors, wouldn't admit to feeling shit. Then I felt forced to go to the doctors, take time off, go to counselling, but hated all of it. Now I feel like I've done everything everyone told me to: tried time off, tried being back to normal, tried counselling, tried CBT and nothing really seems to have any long-lasting effect. But then I wonder why it would when there will still be no baby (weirdly, it's only the first miscarriage that seems to be so real, I guess because it was so much later than the recent one) and so everything in life is just a reminder that I'm not having the life I'd thought I was going to be having. Nothing will change that.

Gosh I'm so sorry you are feeling like this really. But it does get better. I think when it happened to me it felt like it affected me more because it was unplanned at first and then when I lost it I realised I'd never been quite sure about it at the time but how much I really wanted it.
I was a mess for so long. depression, antidepressants, counselling x3. I lost a lot of friends and a lot of my life and then I guess I just sort of got better. I think it took me a good 2 years afterwards to start the healing process and by the time it had been 3 I was feeling much better. I'm really happy now, I have gone on to have another two children but I had reached my happy place before then so just letting you know it can be done so please focus on how well you are doing and have yourself a . It can get better

That sounds like my situation, Brer. Sorry it happened to you too. Unplanned and, initially, unsure how I could cope with going ahead. In denial for many weeks and then accepted a decision had to be made eventually and did. And got happy about it, very much so, perhaps more than a normal planned pregnancy because I had to make myself realise how this would totally change our lives, and so I had to convince myself that life as it was was fine but a bit empty, and that a new baby would be good for the three of us (me, son and his dad) but kept it a secret from the dad as I knew he'd want to debate it. Wanted to wait until I'd got my head round it and I was past point of no return. Then it was over. The secrecy, and the guilt that I felt and still feel, haven't helped.

I wasn't sleeping or eating brilliantly and I'd cut down from a pack of cigarettes a day to one or two, but hadn't stopped. I feel responsible. GP says it probably won't have been that, but I know it could have been a contributing factor. Then again, ate and slept and didn't smoke with most recent one and it still went wrong. Then I decide I'm never going to be able to have another successful pregnancy and it all spirals.

It's good to hear about people coming out of this. I really wish I could believe that I will.

I had a stillbirth and was convinced that the only thing that could make me feel happy or even normal was another baby. Not as a replacement, but a fresh new life. Then I had a miscarriage. Round about what would have been the due date of the miscarried baby, I started producing milk. My GP took blood tests which showed that my hormones had gone completely haywire. I felt much the same as you, but the blood tests showed that it was a physical reaction to haywire hormones as well as depression. I was a SAHM at the time so I wasn't trying to cope with work; I really don't think I could have coped with work. Did a lot of crying in the shower to try to keep it from my 3 year old.

It did get easier with time, but I was a SAHM, trying (unsuccessfully) for another baby much longer than I would have been if I'd had a live baby. I just couldn't see beyond my need for another baby; it was all-consuming. The long SAHM period pretty much wrecked my career, only just picking up the pieces now.

Still struggle with anniversaries.

Just a thought, OP. I've just been through IVF with a surrogate and we discovered that progesterone levels have to be over 100 for a pregnancy to be secure. Lots of people don't seem to know this. It's easy to fix, might be worth remembering.xx

I think you are equating how much time passed with it somehow having an effect on your depression. Its not about thinking well its 5months , 6 months etc etc so i should be improving. You have had a massively difficult time and the fact that you are just about managing at work is sign of some improvement. You will get better, its just your negative automatic thoughts that go with depression. Use the CBT and challenge every negative thought, in writing with what a kind friend would say: it trains your brain to be more positive and trains you to be kinder to yourself. I know what its like re beating yourself up about being down and not getting better

Re medication, has she upped your dose or tried a different drug. I needed a much higher than normal dose and a different drug to Prozac before i improved. They are reluctant to try higher than normal doses but we had tried CBT and that alone wasnt working with the initial dose. I'd carry on with CBT as yes its tough when you are in the depths but once you are coming out of it, you start to see its really, really helpful and it can help you stop if you are on sprial backi down. Honestly, its the best think i have ever done for my depression. Dont be so hard on yourself, it really wont help:just think, yes its a horrible time but one day i will enjoy things again. There is no 'set' time to get better or get over a loss of a loved one.

I think work often helps, in a way. It's the kind of job where you have to act a role and it's hard not to once you're there. But that can also be tiring.

Bonnie, the milk experience must have been heartbreaking. I am sorry about your losses.

Saturn, I think I am too messed-up right now to be able to investigate anything, or plan another pregnancy, but will remember that for when/ if I can.

Sazzle, I've been on a few different ones and none have made a massive impact. Current one is fluexotine. Dose has just gone to 40.

I do like the CBT. Gives me a purpose to do stuff. But the NHS limit of sessions runs out soon so will have to start again.

There have been good moments in the year. Usually involving sunshine and holidays. But real life comes back and it is a life with no baby and not the future that I'd re-imagined.