what cunts what utter utter cunts

[earplugsahoy]

I am not being unreasonable.. I am sat in floods of tears.

My DH just received a text from a friend asking if he has seen the news.. His company has gone into administration as of yesterday and announced in the news this afternoon on Christmas day

He had no idea, noone even the manager's had any idea.. There has been rumours going round and some suspicious activity but noone expected this.

One big manager left this week, and changed his mobile number (funny that)

The news quote from the administration says significant job losses over the next few days, i feel bitterly angry that the fat cats in their nice cars have kept this to themselves until after Christmas so not to lose all the staff

Dh was offered a job last month and i convinced him not to leave as it fits all our needs etc

I have been through redundancy. First time the company shed half of it's staff who claimed their redundancy through the government and then the administrators traded the company for four weeks as there was a good order book and interested parties. Wages were paid weekly to the remaining staff by the administrators.

I also got made redundant three months ago with no notice. I had a claim form from the adminstrators and claimed redundancy through the government. It was paid after about four weeks. After my "notice period", ie I should have been given 10 weeks notice due to my age and service I had another form through and the wages I would have earned, less money earned from any new job or jobseekers was again paid into my bank after about four weeks.

You will also get any holiday owed or overtime.

At the time it was a terrible shock but it has worked out fantastically for me as I got a new job fairly quickly which I love (hated my old one). The job market is picking up now, I know I was surprised how different it was for me than for my friend who was in the same position 18 months ago.

Try not to worry and good luck x x

If the worst comes to the worst, try the two largest supermarkets. Long hours delivering but my son in law enjoys it as it feels like he is his own boss. Tend to start you off on 28 plus hours but he does much more, often spending his days driving through the most beautiful scenery and sends us pics from his travels. He took the job of someone who moved to management within the company.

They are very keen on people who have experience such as your DH. Once you have come to terms with the shock, it may well be for the best. Good luck.

We had similar happen when blockbuster went into admin,with a baby who was only weeks old. OH had turned down a seasonal job in another retail area and then within the week they went bust, then they were "saved" then they went completely. It was a bloody nightmare.

Hope your OH find a another job quickly.

I'm very sorry for everyone affected.

Except, of course, the directors, CEO's etc. I find it really odd that some posters are remarking that they will have had a crap day too. Does anyone honestly imagine that they didn't see this possibility months ago and provide for themselves accordingly? You think they are going to lose their homes, cars, luxury lifestyles? I promise you, they will be in new, highly lucrative positions within weeks and their reputations for being able to run a company right down to the wire will be a major asset to their new employers.

Insolvency laws need to be changed to protect ordinary workers. The people who own the company should be obliged to put their personal assets into the pot like any other bankrupt. The whole ethos of 'gather as much money as possible then shut down unexpectedly' is deeply immoral. I actually wrote to my MP (the outstandingly useless James Brokenshire) when Comet and HMV went down the same way in a very short time, suggesting changes that could be made to protect workers and suppliers, rather than administrators and directors. His reply was that more legislation would not be appropriate at that time. If someone really believes that 'the time something bad is actually going on' is the wrong time to fix things, there's nothing else to say really...

SilverDragonfly1 Do you know what a limited liability company is?

The owners are not bankrupt. The company is or may be. It is a different person, it is incorporated as one. The directors and owners are not liable for its debts unless they allow it to trade insolvent.

Similarly the company's assets are not available to meet the private debts of the directors.

That model of incorporation as a separate person with separate liability and separate assets has been copied all over the world and it snot going to be abolished anytime soon.

Just seen this thread. So sorry op and to all those affected.

Dreadful news and disgusting timing.

I appreciate it seems to be disgusting timing, but another pov is that they tried to ensure that everyone got their Christmas paypacket, rather than leaving them one short of bills/presents.

I know the management when I was made redundant agonised about the timing. One said as much: once the decision was made to go into liquidiation they spent a very long time deciding on the timing... they missed Christmas but hit summer holidays and still got moaned at for it being 'the worst timing'.

You poor thing...as others have said they may continue trading hoping for a buyer and the staff are high up the debtors list and it seems they can pay at least this month -fingers crossed for you. Good Luck. [Flowers]

I've been surprised by how great the parcel delivery companies have been this Christmas ...but I was especially impressed and surprised by CL. They got a big ebay parcel from SE England to North Scotland in less than a day, just before Christmas, reasonable cost and a lovely friendly delivery guy who was joking with my DCs .

(And when I saw it was CL I was ready for grief - had a terrible experience with CL a couple of years ago - waiting in for days, being lied to (told they had a photo of my front door - I asked to see it - funnily enough they couldn't show me) - eventually the depot manager dropped it in to me on his way home at 10pm...feel sorry for him too)

Also bunny not sure how your self employed DP will go on - hate to tell you this but I know my brother (electrical contractor) lost over £20k when a big construction firm went under a couple of years ago Good Luck for you too.

Having worked at a place that did redundancies at Xmas it was known, it was planned that way. There are always a select few that know.

I'm so so sorry. I really do hope 2015 brings better times xxx

Redunandcies are often planned and announced over christmas because the company can put the costs in the old financial year and see more profit in the new one.
This is not the case with insolvency as the directors must call in the administrators when they know they are insolvent, otherwise thier personal assets can be claimed.

Bunny, I would really like to hear that your Dh is in a union.

I have a relative who used to work in the industry. He started as an employee but was talked into becoming a franchisee. His duties didnt change, there was no autonomy. Under employment law he could have argued that he was a worker, this would bring the same rights, however, it is my understanding that this has never been tested, there is no precedent.

An employment lawyer would know more and I think a union would be daft not to try.

I hope things work out for you.

Silver the directors do not necessarily own the company. The shareholders, who do, come last in the pecking order of creditors, below the employees.

In fact the shareholders come after all the creditors and so they should. In practice directors are usually required to have some shareholding and often have more than is required. But none of that makes them liable for the debts of the company!

It is likely that much of the ownership via Better Capital is actually union pension funds

Thank you everyone. We have to sit tight until Tuesday to see if the BACS for the invoice due to be paid on Xmas Eve materialises. If it does, then he will be owed a lot less than £3200 (closer to £2000), which we will then file a Proof of Debt form for. However, we cannot do anything until Tuesday - which is a bit of a pain in the arse. How much of that money we will see remains to be seen - we have been told by a few people that work in firms dealing with insolvency (including Abouttime, thank you) that DH may be a preferential creditor, but I am not holding my breath.

The employed (PAYE) staff have been paid until 31st December (they were paid on 19th Dec), they are just awaiting news of how the redundancy will be managed. According to the Operations Manager and DH's depot, there will be a representative from EY to speak to the PAYE staff and give them a better understanding of how the

Nomama - at present DH has only been paid for work up to 5th December and this is the case for all self employed drivers. They have been well and truly shafted as, at present, they have paid for the privilege of delivering parcels for the last 2.5wk. In fact on Xmas Eve, when all the self employed drivers weren't paid, they were assured that they will be paid on Tuesday and that everything was OK - they were even given a list of invoice pay dates. Those poor drivers then went out with deliveries, only to find out the next day that the company had gone into administration.

For that reason I think the very senior management are contemptible bastards. They let many, many drivers go out to deliver parcels for them knowing full well that not only did they have no intention of paying them for their service, but that it was actually going to cost the drivers money.

lost a random bit of my sentence above! The PAYE staff will be briefed on Monday and given a better understanding of how the redundancies will be managed and what forms they need to file.

Indeed caroldecker and if not union pension funds then other pension funds and life insurance companies - which means that it is the savings of ordinary people. Which casts the suggestion that the owners should be required to meet the debts in another light, doesn't it?

As for the senior management they could not know until Christmas was here whether the Christmas orders would be enough to save the company; and they were not. To let it be known that there were problems would be to invite the customers to take their business elsewhere and destroy any chance there might have been to save the business.

Oh Andrew, please do not try to tell me that senior management thought the business was saveable on Xmas Eve morning, but not Xmas Eve afternoon?!

On Xmas Eve, when they failed to pay the self employed staff, they gave those staff complete assurances that their invoices will be paid to a certain timetable that they had no intention of honouring. The very least they could have done was send the self employed drivers home on Xmas Eve to stop them losing any more money.

Capitalism, the economic system that we live under, is weighted to favour the owners, the people with the money and the power. There are checks and balances that lessen the damage done to the little people but in situations such as this, it will be us, the workers who suffer the most. The only way this can be changed is by moving away from capitalism to a more socialist system.
Bunny and

Bunny and earplugs, I hope your partners get everything that is owed to them as soon as possible!

It's not just the drivers who have worked to the bone the last few weeks

My dh is semi management, he has been working as early as 3am until 4pm coming home and going back in at 10pm just to do the routing that the night management are shit at.

We probably will not get paid any of the overtime that we are owed, and on monday he will go into the depot to see what the administration say about the notice and redundancy pay.

Most of the drivers he has spoken today have secured new roles within different companies, if only he had that option to pick one up. He has to find a job, apply, interview and then start..

I don't see any money coming to us at the end of January so no idea when or how we will pay our rent \ bills.. From what i see about this government fund it is likely to be months rather than weeks to receive monies from them

I'm sorry man the husband told me a couple of weeks ago that CL were going under.

I don't know if this will help but dpd are seriously swamped because of CL shutting its doors and yodals sacking collections off for Christmas.

If I can help in any way in that area just give me a prod.

But Arabella the management are not the owners. The shareholders are the owners.

And in the event of a company going into administration, the shareholders are last on the list of creditors. So they have nothing to gain from administration.

If there has been mismanagement, that is a separate issue.

I can't imagine the directors have been laughing into their Bucks Fizz this Christmas, knowing what fate is about to befall their employees (and them).

Bunny the decision to cease trading is NOT the management's decision, ultimately. Yes, they have to be the ones who actually shut it down, but it's the bank who decides to pull the plug.