I've been bitten by my parents dog twice

[Sapph1e]

I know the title sounds straightforward, but it's not.

They have two dogs; one an aged spaniel and one 18 month old retriever. I also have my own dogs.

Back in the summer I was staying and both my parents' dogs started scrapping under the table. I raised my legs so I didn't get in the way and unfortunately my movement coincided with the younger dog savagely trying to bite the other dog. In no way did he mean to strike me, but he bit hard, straight down to the muscle and the pain was immense; I was debilitated for days (literally hobbling) and I have a scar. Anyway, it wasn't his fault and I didn't think any more of it.

Until yesterday when I stood up in the kitchen and he thought I was the other dog and bit me AGAIN. It's not as bad but again, I'm in a lot of pain and though it was a quick snap he obviously did it violently because the bruising is bad.

I'm used to dogs, I own two and I grew up with them and I have never been bitten before. I am not one to overreact but I have two children and I am petrified that he will do this again to one of them. He does not mean to bite one of us, that is certain, but on neither occasion did I do anything that remotely antagonised him. It was literally wrong place, wrong time. The dog in question thought he was snapping at another dog.

I feel uncomfortable but am I BU??? Do tell!

Actually that's a fair question. If your dog bit a child, what would you do? Let's not sidestep the issue with the, 'oh, my dog would never do that' retort. If your dog bit a child, would you put it down?

It is a fair question, elephantspoo. One of my rescues started to show worrying signs of aggression. I took him to see a vet and two behaviourists.

BEFORE he had any opportunity to "bite a child" and upon the advice I received regarding his condition (RS/CRS), I chose to have him euthanized earlier this year. He was my soul mate and I owed it to him and to everyone else, to ensure he couldn't harm or kill (he had the physical capacity) anyone.

We aren't all irresponsible "AH"s. Far from it.

I wonder if chipping and policing of dogs will be carried out, or whether this is just another BS knee jerk relation by government. If everyone knows dogs need to be chipped, then screening in public and removal of un chipped dogs would remove most unfit dogs from unfit owners one would imagine.

Also, mandatory insurance on a database would help, and eliminate dogs from being kept legally by those who were unwilling to take responsibility for them.

Inevitably you would always end up with some black market anonymous dog trade, but you can deal with that easily enough when you find them with a quick injection.

Another dog-lover here too, I currently have two rescue collies. I have also in the past euthanised a 6yr old collie who had been with me for 3 years and bit someone seriously, as well as being dog-aggressive. Most responsible dog-owners aren't blind to their dog's faults and issues and deal with them. Holding my young beautiful dog while he was killed was the singular most difficult moment of my life but I chose to do it.

Op, your parents dog is younger and has an opportunity to be helped with his behaviour but it can't happen overnight. Buy a muzzle immediately and try to keep him separate while you're staying there.

You must be feeling dreadful. No doubt you and your family have been looking forward to celebrating Christmas together. I can only imagine how difficult this for you all. If this was me I would be home by now, would not put my children or my dogs in this position. For this very reason I stayed in a hotel rather than at my dp house when we visit. They have several cats and I wouldn't trust my dogs not to react despite my dogs sleeping with the cleaners cat when they stay with her.
Sapph1e if you are still at your dp house and the dog is not now in a muzzle you are being vu.

Better still for all of you it would be for you to be not there, you dd is scared.
This dog is dangerous because he has not been adequately socialised and/or trained and sounds to be very, very anxious and an anxious dog is an aggressive dog.
Your parents need to be thinking about seeking input from a behaviourist, the dog is young and it may not be too late for him.

Sorry to disappoint, elephantspoo but not in the 'burbs' and always mix with big dogs not yuppy dogs whatever they may be. My dog is chipped, insured and trained. I have never felt the need to exercise them in children's play parks and have always picked up after them. What I am glad my children never had to endure is the sight of a grown woman kicking a dog, no doubt associated with some 'colourful' language, that really would have terrified them.

I agree with outlawing black market dog trade, a quick injection to the breeders would be great.

What people don't realise is that quite a lot of the maiming of children and even some of the deaths by dogs is carried out as a form of child abuse according to the police, revolting people bait the dog with the child and then when it bites they can blame the dog and so get away with the abuse, after all the dog can't give evidence. There are some seriously vile people around.

ProcrastinaRemNunc - I am really saddened to read that. I don't fear or hate dogs, but I live in an are where dog owners are a problem. They range from the classic stereotypical scummy mummy with her two staffie bull terriers as a replacement for absent father, and dogs dinner in waiting, baby Chantelle and toddler Damien. One will end up in the local papers with a face like the elephant man. At the other end of the scale where I live you have middle class housewife in her 14 Plate Nissan Juke and faux fur coat, walking her pedigree Labrador, also called Juke, and waiting iPhone in hand to pretend to be calling DD Chlamydia just as Juke squats to empty his lunch at the bottom of the children's climbing frame.

We need robust legal framework for the ownership of dogs, backed with financial penalties and compulsory insurance for when things go wrong. If I knew Mrs Juke would receive community service cleaning dog shit in the town centre for 40 hours, and Miss Staffy would face 3 years in jail for having her dog chew her kids face up, maybe I'd think twice about kicking dogs that do not heed my warning, or returning dog shit to its owner. Until then, my system works. You can only have DH pick dogs shit out of your car's air intake so many times before he starts wondering why you keep coming home with dog crap on your car.

I'm sorry about your dog, but I'm glad you told me. I wish we lived in a world where everyone was noble and responsible, and selfishness and ignorance did not exist. I know I generalise in my posts, and I know not everyone is the same. Please accept my apology if I offended you.

Would add that where I live in Europe dogs have to be chipped and registered with the local council. Where dogs reach a certain height the owner has to undergo a knowledge test and public liability insurance is mandatory for all dog owners.
Generally dogs get three chance when they bite, but the owners are expected to undergo behaviour training that is monitored.
I think it does help, I hardly ever hear of dog attacks, we do have dog homes though with dogs who have been given up so it does not resolve all issues with owning dogs :(

I agree with people who are saying next time it might be a young child the dog bites 'accidentally'. This dog is simply not a safe pet to have in the home.

Another dog lover here. I've had a dog who developed aggression due to dementia put to sleep within 24 hours and before he had a chance to hurt anyone. I've also had an unpredictable horse PTS before she could hurt someone.

I don't agree with immediate PTS. It's sad how people expect animals to be perfect, when humans are always less so.

Immediately, the dog needs to be kept separately from your children and all the other dogs, including the one it normally lives with.

In the very near future the dog needs to be vet checked for any underlying physical causes, and following that, treatment sought by a qualified, registered dog behaviorist. Steer clear of any dog trainers who preach about 'dominance' as that theory has been debunked and certainly does not apply to domestic dogs.

Oh, the dog is a safe pet to have in the home. The problem is the home is not a safe place to take your children.

Good advice to the OP to act now before it's too late.

Sad to see dog owners trying to minimise the risk.

2014 UK dog bites and strikes accounted for 6,740 admissions

dog bites and strikes accounted for 6,740 admissions
The age group with the highest number of admissions was 0-9 year olds

That's admissions so not counting the people sent home bandaged and injected and not counting the people who treated themselves after being told "oh it's only a scratch - he was just being friendly"

OTOH it's good to hear from lots of dog owners who DO understand the risk.

Has the younger dog not ever seriously hurt the older one? He doesn't sound very nice at all. I would suggest your parents have him see a behaviourist and make sure your kids and your dogs stay away from him until the situation improves. Surely they should take your suggestion seriously as you personally have been injured twice by him.

Could I just say - I keep hearing people say 'never leave your kids alone with this dog'. I've owned dogs all my life, and think this advice is dodgy. If a dog chooses to go for someone, an adult being present will not be fast enough to prevent the bite. Dogs move at lightening speed when they bite. Kids should not be in the same room as a dog known to be unpredictable. Or accessible to the kids, as often kids will track the dog down wanting to play with it.

If a kid is bitten by a dog, it is the parents fault for allowing the supituation to occur (or the guardians fault if the parent has abdicated their responsibility). It's not the dog or the dog owners fault.

Parents are responsible for their children, and if you put your child in front of a dog with out the intent or the ability to protect it, you are the person creating the injury and you are negligent in your care.

You can't blame a dog for injuring a child. You can kill it, but it's still not the dogs fault. And the only time you can blame an owner is if you are in a public space and the owner does not control their dog. In all other instances the parent is at fault.

If dog bites were reported to social services, a lot of parents would think twice about letting dogs loose around their children. As it is, no one is really that bothered until the kid is in A&E and the parent is saying, 'oh but it was such a nice dog'. Trying to assuage their own guilt and hoping no one accuses them of negligence and child endangerment.

I agree, Givesyouhell.

Elephantspoo, along with your suggestions, I've long wished dog owners had to attain certification in competent handling, behaviour management, dog laws and canine first aid, prior to being able to buy a dog. Much like a driving test & license!

For the benefit of the public and dogs alike, it would be a simple way to ensure an acceptable level of competence and to ensure responsibilities are understood. The laws you mention would then enforce the same.

For the benefit of dogs, if people had to earn the right to own one, it would go some way to ensuring they are not treated as disposable objects, mistreated and poorly raised, trained and socialised.

I appreciate your apology and I hope you understand how offensive the thought of our dogs being kicked is, when we are competent and responsible owners, who genuinely would not dream of endangering your children - and as described previously, that's not 'just talk'.

I do understand that you encounter issues where you are. In any event, kicking a dog carries a high risk of them engaging in a full blown attack upon you. Besides which, if it is aggressive and close enough for you to kick, it is close enough to do you/your children harm.

Did you know that the best deterrent for an aggressive attack, is the sound of a small, handheld fire extinguisher? They can be effective up to a few metres and will send a dog away without harm to either you, your children or the dog. I have seen one effectively used to break up a seven dog fight.

A 'pet corrector' is a similar (but less loud/effective) idea. They are sold as training aids but I would not use one for that purpose. They and fire extinghishers are definitely worthwhile, harmless and effective deterrent though.

elephantspoo, that's interesting (bite being parent's responsibility, not owner's) and makes me feel I've done the right thing on choosing not to spend time at my family's homes. Can you tell me where I would find that info please?

Lapsed, were you to choose to expose your child/ren to a known risk (such as an aggressive dog), then you would be held accountable by social services and possibly the police, for any consequence (harm/injury) of that choice.

The dog owner would also be held accountable by the police.

People know the risks, both parent and dog owner, but they don't care and they brush it off until little Sally or. Jim is in A&E having his/her face or arm stitched back together again. Then it's all, oh woe is me, pity me, my child was mauled by a dog.

At that point DC should be in care along with siblings and parent(s) should be bailed to appear on charges of negligence resulting in injury of a child.

If they started removing kids because their parents allowed them to be bitten by dogs, then I'm sure parents would start taking care of their kids properly, and grandparents would think twice about repopulating their empty nests with surrogate children dogs.

My sister has arrived who is very sensible and she has roundly condemned my opinion. "I've lived with him for a year and a half and I've never seen him behave like that." I showed her both scar and bruises and she says "Well, I wasn't here, I don't know the context." I have explained it but she wouldn't listen.

I feel so not listened to :( And like I'm being silly for making a fuss. The first photo is the latest bite and the second the scar left from last time.

Are the photos visible?

Yes. It's clearly a proper bite. I've separated fighting dogs before, quite a few times as I used to have two that would fight and have to be physically separated by the collar, and I've never been 'accidentally' (or otherwise) bitten. How are you keeping the children safe now, is the dog being shut away, or are the children? Or are you just hoping for the best?

Having seen the photos, I feel confident in saying that bites of that pressure and scope do have the potential to trash a child's face. In fact, a bite of that scope could surround a child's entire face and head.

Your sister, therefore, is not being very sensible at all.

The welfare of your children is your sole responsibility. They are currently in jeopardy. Why are you waiting for your parents or sisters permission to protect your children?

I understand you feel overwhelmed by the dynamics of the situation but all I can say (again) is that if it were me and mine, that dog would be segregated completely from my children and my dogs. If anyone undermined me in that stipulation, I'd leave.

This dog is obviously a concern to you. You would not have posted about it otherwise. So, trust your instincts. You are not exaggerating or imagining the risk posed to your dc.

Your sister says "I've lived with him for a year and a half and I've never seen him behave like that."

Then you are faced with a dog capable of unpredictable aggression. This is, IME, the most dangerous form of aggression and the most difficult to overcome.