I've been bitten by my parents dog twice

[Sapph1e]

I know the title sounds straightforward, but it's not.

They have two dogs; one an aged spaniel and one 18 month old retriever. I also have my own dogs.

Back in the summer I was staying and both my parents' dogs started scrapping under the table. I raised my legs so I didn't get in the way and unfortunately my movement coincided with the younger dog savagely trying to bite the other dog. In no way did he mean to strike me, but he bit hard, straight down to the muscle and the pain was immense; I was debilitated for days (literally hobbling) and I have a scar. Anyway, it wasn't his fault and I didn't think any more of it.

Until yesterday when I stood up in the kitchen and he thought I was the other dog and bit me AGAIN. It's not as bad but again, I'm in a lot of pain and though it was a quick snap he obviously did it violently because the bruising is bad.

I'm used to dogs, I own two and I grew up with them and I have never been bitten before. I am not one to overreact but I have two children and I am petrified that he will do this again to one of them. He does not mean to bite one of us, that is certain, but on neither occasion did I do anything that remotely antagonised him. It was literally wrong place, wrong time. The dog in question thought he was snapping at another dog.

I feel uncomfortable but am I BU??? Do tell!

Kick the fucking thing, or tell your parents you won't be back until their dogs are muzzles and caged. I'd happily boot a dog in the street if wasn't muzzled and got too close to my kids. Dog owners need to learn that their best friend is an animal and should have its jaws strapped shut when other people are around.

BarbarianMum, I'd be interested if you have any more info as according to Jean Donaldson, although she only mentions Moscow briefly, these dogs don't live in packs.

academyfordogtrainers.com/blog/2013/are-dogs-pack-animals/

Elephantspoo, yes, kicking an already anxious and unhappy dog is likely to stop you getting bitten...

Havent read the whole thread but please go to a walk in centre and get some antibiotics. If the area becomes hot/you see red lines go immediately to a&e.

The dog thinks he is the pack leader he should not be growling over food etc. Please advise you parents to seek help with him.

There's a lot on t'internet midori - I only mentioned the Moscow dogs because they're the ones that have been extensively studied but I've seen feral dog packs in other big cities.

To a certain extent it does depend on what you mean by 'living in a pack' - dog packs aren't like wolf packs (which is why wolf behaviour can't be used to predict dog behaviour). Not all dog packs are the same either because some dogs are born feral, some are strays and some are daytime strays that get to go home at night and may even get fed by their owners - and all these will interact in different ways. And, of course, in urban areas, they scavenge rather than hunt so packs don't hold territories in the same way wolves do, although they can be territorial, esp wrt their dens. And some packs aren't packs at all, just loose associations of dogs who are running around together (you get those on the estates round here).

I would be mortified if one of my dogs did this, why is she letting them play/fight anyway? If they try and bite each other they should be kept separate, they could use a crate and just let one dog out at a time, when people are visiting the dogs should be kept out of the way. My dogs don't bite but they can be a bit hyper so when we have people over a crate one of them ( the biggest one ) and I keep hold of the other until she has calmed down, if she gets hyper then I remove her from the room. If she's not willing to put them in another room or keep them separate then I would not stay there.

Experienced pro dogwalker here. I've had a huge amount of time watching dogs interact with other dogs as we take them out in groups. The sort of fighting/biting that you describe as taking place between this young retriever and the other dogs would immediately result in the retriever being placed on the 'no group walking' list. Any bite to a human would end in us refusing to take the dog at all.

Shoulder barging and mouth wrestling accompanied by some barking and growling, is very normal when we first introduce a new dog to another. But the dogs do not hurt each other.

An 18 month old retriever could do a lot of damage very quickly, they are heavy strong dogs.

Another experienced dog owner saying:

IT'S SERIOUS. DON'T RISK IT

What will you do OP?

I would be asking for the dog to be muzzled (they'll have a muzzle at the vets) or be shut away while my child was in the house.

To hell with what you parents will say FFS. What on earth does it matter compared to the safety of your child?! Tell them it's the dog sorted or you and their GD away today in a cab.

If your DD gets bitten you will NEVER forgive yourself. Especially since you have asked the question and had the answer. Honestly.

If you booted my dog for getting too close to your kid elephantspoo i would boot you right back. Or one of your brats.

Pitched if yur dog bit me, even once, I'd call the police.

Kicking a pissed off aggressive dog is more likely to end up with you having a huge chunk out of your leg rather than making the animal run away. Not a very well thought out idea elephants. If you kicked my unmuzzled very well behaved and friendly dogs while they were on a lead and just happened to be passing you I guarantee I would boot you right back.
Anyway, stupid ideas aside, your parents really need to address this very serous issue right away. They need to either hire an experienced trainer to come in and work with the dog, consider re homing to a very experienced home with no children who can provide the dog with the training it deserves and requires (disclosing the problems of course) or put the dog to sleep. The dog should be checked by a vet for any underlying medical issues that can cause behavioural problems.

For the time being it needs to muzzled and segregated from the other dog and the children for their safety.
Can I ask how your parents interact with the dog? Is he walked frequently enough? Do they provide him with play times that use his natural instincts to retrieve/hunt things out? Do they ensure they are pack leaders or is the dog allowed to do whatever it likes?

Elephantspoo, were you to actually, really not just in your head, kick an innocent, non-aggressive dog, who happened to have the misfortune to pass you in the street - you would be guilty of animal cruelty and quite possibly arrested.

It must be difficult, to be as scared of dogs as you are but phobias are irrational. You can't take your irrational feelings and aggression out on innocent victims.

pitch - If you couldn't control your dog and it approached my kids, it'd get a damn good kick to make sure it understood it wasn't allowed to approach my kids. If you don't understand or couldn't give a fuck about your dog or other people's kids, that's your problem. Now, if your dog bit my kids, I'd kill it and call the police to collect the carcas. You need to take responsibility for your dog, in public and in your house.

Kids die all the time as the result of dogs attacked. That's because the dog owners and the kids parents couldn't give a fuck about kids. Time to start making dog owners responsible, traceable, insured, useable, and punishable for their actions and those they of their dogs.

I have raised my concerns several times and did not have an understanding response. Though I think they have taken notice. The explanation given is "He didn't mean to bite you, he thought you were Sapphie and (my dog!) and it was an accident. He's only ever bitten you and my other dog". I stood my ground and have refused to allow Dc near him

Do any other children ever visit? The dog is very dangerous and it's worrying that your parents are minimising its behaviour.

ProcrastinaRemNunc - I have no fear of dogs, but have encounter too many AHs who believe their dogs should be allowed to jump on stringers kids, 'he's only playing', too many dog owners who couldn't give a fuck about children, 'we'll if your kid doesn't want to get scratched them don't bring him to the park', and too many dog owners who would never dream of picking up their own dog's shit, 'I'm not doing that, it's biodegradable, and your kids shouldn't be playing on the grass'. Yes, there are good dog owners who muzzle their dogs and pick up the poo, but the majority don't muzzle their dogs, and conveniently happen to be looking around to make sure no one is watching while their mutt shits in the play park.

Until dog owners start taking responsibility for their dogs actions, and until they show willing to be identified when their dogs scratch or bite other people's kids, then a warning to the owner to keep their dog under control, followed by a swift kick to deter the dog is the only deterrent that works.

And it does work. It's surprising how quickly a dog backs off if you are sufficiently aggressive to it. Even the traditionally aggressive breeds.

But then, I suppose some people just don't give a fuck about their kids safety, so were destined to continue to see dead babies and little girls with chewed faces in our papers.

I'll tell you, if people had to pay £100 a year to maintain their dog on a register and have it chipped, the bulk of the problem would go. There is no social or financial motive for a dog owner to be responsible at all in this country.

Blimey, elephantspoo where on earth do you live, it sounds like the pits of the universe if you meet so many people with such bad manners. Never happened to me in years of having small children, including them never having stepped in dog poo.

Although I would have been delighted to muzzle the children who scratched mine, dogs have never scratched them.

Another voice OP telling you that this is serious it sounds like the dog is resource guarding and stressed. Regardless of the cause the dog has already bitten you twice so it's only a matter of time before he does it again. Try to get a muzzle to make it through the holidays and then only see your parents on your terms, I.e. no dog.

Your parents should take the dog to a vet and a good behaviourist ASAP, but it is possible that the dog will need re homing to experienced owners where he will be the only pet with no children around.

Stand firm op. The most worrying part of all this is how your parents are minimising the problem. You were bitten. They should have been mortified and bending over backwards to apologise.

NCIS - I envy you. Sadly no middle class suburb for me. The dog poo thing is no biggie, I grew up in an era when no one picked up their dogs crap. That fact that some do, and some don't, is probably a step forward, but it is also testament to the contempt some have for a law that has no repercussions. Posting it through their letter boxes, or catching up with them and putting it in their pockets does encourage them not to do it again though.

I guess, in the 'burbs you have lots of little yuppie dogs, whereas in more metropolitan housing areas, you tend to see bigger, worse trained, worse cared for dogs.

OP - The dog has given you a warning. Next time it could be your child. It could be firmer. It could be a hospital visit. It could scar them mentally and physically for life. Your parents have also given you a warning, they don't give a shit. What you choose to do, now that you have been warned, is up to you, but the consequences if something does happen lie squarely upon your shoulders. If it were me, I would be protecting children.

Can you get them to read this? They are not facing the problem. Safeguarding your children is your top priority, but can you do anything to protect the old dog from being subjected to attack after attack?

That young dog is a constant threat, like a bomb ready to go off at any time.

Theres no need to get hysterical elephant. 17 people have died as a result of dog attacks in the uk since 2005. Thats not all the time.

Pitch - And how many maimed, scarred and injured? Do you give a shit? Do you muzzle your dog(s)? And I'm sure if it were your child with stitches in his or her face you'd be thinking something other than, 'bad doggie'.

Actually that's a fair question. If your dog bit a child, what would you do? Let's not sidestep the issue with the, 'oh, my dog would never do that' retort. If your dog bit a child, would you put it down?

Good for you, Saph1e.

Elephantspoo, from April 2015 all UK dogs must be chipped, by law. Mine are already and always have been.

They each have liability insurance and health insurance.

They are each up to date with vaccinations and paraciticides.

They are each trained and handled responsibly and appropriately.

They are never outside of my control in public places (in accordance with UK law).

They are rescues (aside from the puppy) and have been assessed for good temperament.

Their "shit" is cleared up whenever they go in public, in accordance with UK law but usually they defecate on my own land (and it is cleared up there too!).

I do not exercise them in children's parks, preferring beaches, forests and fields (all within 10 min walk of my home).

These dogs do not approach children we don't know. With children we do know, they are fully supervised and their behaviour is expected to be (and is) exemplary.

These dogs do not need muzzles (if they did, I'd muzzle them) or kicks from angry people, who like to be aggressive and/ hurt animals for no good reason (which in itself is a massive red flag and indicatior of a high probability for child and spouse abuse, BTW).

I understand exactly what you mean about being punished and ridiculed for making a stand as it is happening to me. The incident wasn't as serious (pure luck and timing) but could have led to a child's face being disfigured. It was a wake up call for me and I requested that dogs be kept apart if we visited with the DCs (now 4 and 2). This was refused; I was excluded from family get togethers and then my uncle told me is was being fucking pathetic and needed to pack it in.

I don't bother seeing my wider family any more. People who believe their spoilt pets take priority over children's safety are bloody ignorant.