8 week old DD won't sleep!!! Feeling desperate :(

[Absofrigginlootly]

Posted this in 'sleep' but also posting here for traffic. Sorry, but I am so desperate now!!!!

Sorry this is long, but detail needed I think. Typing this after hours of trying to get DD to sleep she has finally given in and asleep on me (for the moment).....

DD is almost 8 weeks old and exclusively BF. Has always been a crap sleeper/frequent waker and fought naps in the day but sometimes went 2-3 hours in her cot at night.

This week (week 7) she has become even more alert and it's made her sleeping even more of a nitemare! She is basically point blank refusing to sleep anywhere but on me or DH so we have to take it in turns throughout the night...but sometimes she won't even sleep on us until hours of 'battling' her to sleep have passed!

I have noticed that if she is awake for more than 2 hours she goes into meltdown (hard as she is SO alert she would stay awake all day of left to her own devices!!! This has happened on few days when I've had to attend appointments, and ends in hours and hours of screaming and taking until 12-1am to settle her!!!) so I try to get her back to sleep before 1-2 hours of awake time.... Hit and miss at the moment.

We are both feeling desperate now, if DH wasn't here I'd be averaging 1-2hrs a night max. Surely this isn't normal?! You can tell she's exhausted but she just won't let herself go, and even when she does, she's sleeping so lightly that the slightest thing (e.g, she moves her own arm) wakes her up. She's comfort sucking so much she's pooing loads, I'm worried she'll make herself ill...but if I don't give it to her then she just screams hysterically!!! The only time she gives in if I refuse her the boob (if I'm ridiculously sore for e.g.) cuddle her/rock her and essentially let her cry (which is f'king awful!) is after many many hours and she is completely exhausted. Can't co sleep....have tried it, it doesn't work because she wakes herself up, being led down next it me is the same as being in her cot so she might as well be in there because at least I sleep better. Sometimes I can rock her to sleep if she's almost asleep from feeding lots, but she's getting so heavy I can't do it much longer because it makes my stitches hurt (extensive tearing) Even DH is struggling to rock her to sleep now.

My HV is useless and never has more than 5 mins to speak because she's so disorganised and always running late. All the usual suggestions (swaddling, trips out in pram/car seat, white noise, dummy etc) make no difference at all :(

Considering giving a bottle of formula last thing at night....?! But I KNOW she's not hungry, she just won't sleep!!!!!! So don't think it would make any difference and after all I've gone thru to breastfeed (another thread!!) it feels like a failure.

I'm feeling pretty low and desperate....

Agree with feeding lying on your side. I used to do this, and wrap a blanket around ds and we would both fall asleep. Fell very guilty about it, as he was technically sleeping on his side, not his back, but he could go a good 4 hours like that. I didn't have a partner though, so not sure of logistics of co sleeping with a man in the bed.

Oh, and he also only really wanted to sleep on me from 3-10 weeks. I think that's because of being on the front again. More comfy. I would wrap the blanket around him and tuck it under me. Yep, felt guilty about that too but by that point I needed sleep so bad. He is still very cuddly, and I like to think it helped make us as close as we are
I thought I was going to have a baby and I would put him down at 7 and he would go to sleep. It didn't help that certain older relatives expected this. Go with the baby you got, and adjust accordingly is my advice. I did do controlled (very controlled) crying at around 10 months, which wasn't awful, and he was ready for, so I am no earth mother belive me, but it helps to go with the flow early on.

Ifnotnow - yes i had a big improvement when she was able to sleep on front (crawling age) and she always does now too. It stops the reflexes.
The thing with the reflux is colic etc apparently goes at 12w around, but the issue with dd sleep was until 11m and was still bad for every tooth where we have had some vomiting, hysterical crying even at 2.5 for first 2nd molar.
Hope dc 2 has none of this :) though on the whole much berter by 1 when walking

Sorry, probably missed a lot of this thread but I just felt I need to say:

1. Baby is only teeny young so you may need to fit in with her. She was in your tummy far longer than she's been out.
2. Probably said already but a two month old is not ready for any sort of training
3. Babies under 1yr old needs sleeps approx every 1-1.5 hours. They really do need this sleep.

My DH and I used to do shifts. We shared the balance or on some crucial nights, if we couldn't share equally then I'd at least get 6 hours sleep and so would he.

For me leaving a small baby to cry it out seems cruel.

We still have Ds in our bed when he wants. Not like he's going to be there when he's 10 fingers crossedhaha.

Anyway point is DC is far too young to start training. Baby needs love not rejection

We're talking about a two month old baby. TWO MONTHS. Who/why would you start a routine? The child was cosy in your tummy for 9 months and all of a sudden mom decides it needs a ROUTINE?
I would have thought naively apparently that new mothers were aware of the fact that baby doesn't sleep to your programme. Baby needs a mom to comfort them and make them secure.

If you didn't realise that you were in for sleepless nights then there's something wrong.

Tally, in the nicest possiblecway, DFOD.

No one truly gets just how bad sleep deprivation can be with a newborn until it's actually happening.

OP, others have already mentioned it, but it really would be worth getting your DD checked out for silent reflux. Also, have you tried cutting eggs and dairy out of your diet, to rule out intolerances?

bat I didn't I knew you? Having had a newborn, and knowing how the story goes I didn't realise I wasn't allowed my own entirely valid opinion of being a mother and offering advice based on my opinion.

Just as little FYI BAT I've had my own fair share of sleepless nights. I was offering OP advice based on my experience. Not once was I ugly or nasty

Clearly this isn't good enough for you as you took enough time to tell me to fuck off.

oh lord OP your post takes me back. DD was just like this.

With hindsight she had a combination of things going on: tongue tie (meaning she was very windy and it woke her up), a bit of reflux, and just naturally not needing/wanting much sleep. All leading to massive overtiredness.

A few things that helped us:

• DD slept ok at night because I sat semi upright with her lying tummy down on my chest (this is ok under sids advice btw). I eventually learned to sleep that way with the right pillow arrangement. Does your DD sleep longer if she is lying on your chest? Worth a try?

• Pram walks would get DD to sleep when overtired. Not an ordinary pram walk mind you - it needed to be quite fast, ideally on slightly bumpy pavement, and with no stopping at all. If I stopped she woke up. And sometimes if she was really overtired she would only fall asleep after 30 mins of walking. But it worked in the end if I kept going long enough. A blackout shade helped. I walked miles. Can you or DH do this for a few hours a day? Appreciate you have stitches though so may need to be your DH when he is about. Even doing this for two or three days makes a big difference. Some people find long sling walks do the same thing. Or the car, but again you may need to drive for a bit until it works.

• Getting reflux medication (ranitidine) helped a bit.

• Getting the tongue tie sorted really helped. Does your DD show any tongue tie signs? Does she seem windy? Falls off the boob? Clicking sound? etc

• Unfortunately by the time we got the TT and reflux sorted (at about 4 months) DD had an entrenched rock to sleep habit. Needed to do controlled crying to sort that. But 2 months is too young and especially if there may be reflux or TT going on.

Best of luck OP, I really feel for you. This kind of sleep is not unheard of, some babies are like this, but it's well beyond normal newborn waking. your dd is undoubtedly overtired (which is a total bugger to try to fix) but the key is to try to figure out if there is some underlying issue going on like tongue tie, reflux etc. Have you tried a good breastfeeding counsellor?

No doubt I will get flamed for this, but why not try a bottle of formula?

I BF my 6 week old exclusively, but it was only when I gave him 6 ounces of forumla that he slept for longer than 3 hours. Until then he was fretful, awoke at any little thing.

The problem with breastfeeding is that you don't know how much they are actually taking in - baby just might not be full, hence no sleep and the tears.

Just a thought.

What a horrible post Tally. I knew about sleep deprivation in theory, it's quite a different kettle of fish when you're living it.

Poor you OP, My DS is 4 weeks and is on a 3 hour cycle & I'm finding the lack of/broken sleep really tough, I can't imagine how you are feeling.

I can't claim to be any sort of expert at all but here are a few things that have worked for us: (I definitely didn't want to co-sleep):

• miracle blanket swaddle thing. I can't swaddle to save my life & this thing is really good. You velcro the baby into it. DS didn't like it & fussed at first but my sister (a veteran of 2 shocking sleepers) told me to perservere - now he goes into it quite happily & it stops him whacking himself in the face & waking himself up.

• temperature: when we brought him home it was quite cold (not in the UK) and he was crying at 4am and only sleeping on us. We realised the temperature was dropping and he was cold. Adjusted room temp, added wool blankets, swpped cotton sleepsuits for merino and suddenly he was quite happy to go back into his moses basket. Now it's suddenly got very hot & we are trying to manage that (which is much harder). we have a gro egg room thermometerthingy which is really helpful.

• bottles: DS is 99% EBF but the occasional bottle of EBM or formula has really helped when I've been at the end of my rope (esp with cluster feeds). I haven't noticed that formula keeps him alseep any longer though, plus if I miss a feed I need to pump as I get engorged so it's no magic bullet.

• dummies: I think DS is very sucky so we had dummies on hand for after a feed (esp at night) to distract him fro the boob! You need to be careful not to use them when they're properly hungry though.

He also has daytime naps in his buggy (so I can rock him off to sleep if need b) and I am quite militant about making sure he's down for a nap after a bout an hour or so of awake time.

Silent reflux presents like this with loads of comfort feeding, awful sleep and sudden waking with a scream. My DD was undiagnosed for 8 months of LIVING HELL. A dummy really helped, as did infant gaviscon and finally a diagnosis of Cows Milk Protein Allergy.

DS has just suddenly screamed in his sleep whilst I've been writing this. Silent reflux and normal reflux is so horrible.

OP I just want to reassure you that this is normal baby behaviour. It's just it can appear like everyone else's baby isn't like this. But mine was and lots of posters here also had this. I used to pace the streets sobbing with a baby in the sling while she screamed at me - feeding wasn't what she wanted, so I desperately trudged the roads with every part of my battered exhausted body hurting and praying that she would just go to sleep.

You have my sympathy as my baby was just like this. He slept on my chest until he finally tolerated going in a nest we made him in his carry cot with a lambskin. I wonder if your LO is getting overtired and overstimulated? My 8 week old couldn't go more than 90 mins without needing to sleep and if we left him longer it would be a massive battle. This phase feels never ending but there will be a time soon when he will change and start sleeping.

Didn't mean for my post to sound nasty at all. Was genuinely trying to help. Clearly how I wrote it came across wrong

Yes it did come across wrong, Tally. Sneery and superior.

OP, I can remember the sheer nightmare when DD was like this. It was hell. Thank heavens you have a supportive husband.

How is her weight gain?

Any issues like eczema, stringy poo, vomiting, anything else? Has she been checked over by a GP?

tally who said I was desperate for a routine or that I just left my baby to cry it out??!

I am desperate yes, but desperate for my DD, not myself. It is heartbreaking to watch her screaming with overtiredness. I am 110% dedicated to my little girl to the point that iam not eating/washing/going to the toilet. She is mine and DHs life. We went thru years of hell to conceive and stay pregnant with her. I am well aware that babies involve sleepless nights.....but not sleepless for the baby as well surely?!!!???!!!

I said that out of desperation I refused her the boob when she's been comfort sucking for hours so that she is sick and I know she's not hungry she is just desperately trying to soothe herself to sleep...so I swaddled her, held her close,rocked her in a dark room and whispered how much I love her while she cried. Kept a strict eye on the time, she cried for 5 mins until she passed out.

She just needs to sleep.

This seems to be a phase since she became more alert. She's always been a crap sleeper, but she just doesn't seem to know how to switch off.

Don't think it's silent reflux...I did a few weeks ago and convinced GP to prescribe ranitadine. She was on it for 5 days, it gave her diarrhoea and she cried with gastric pains. Once we stopped giving it she was much happier. She's also fine with lying on her back and will be quite happy during alert times lying on her back and smiling.

She just fights sleep!!! And gets stupidly overtired....

OP it is thoroughly shit, I know. I met up with a friend the other week and DD was howling in the sling until she eventually went to sleep. My friend (also had 2 kids) was alarmed and kept asking what was wrong with her, was she sick, in pain..... No, I calmly replied. This is just what my babies are like for the first 3 or 4 months!! DS was the same!

It does get better, honestly. Keep at the swaddling and being strict to try and get her to sleep on the first sign of tiredness. Quiet house after 4pm helps too - no visitors, no loud TV.

A few weeks ago my husband and I were wondering how the hell we had forgotten about this not going to sleep business, but it has got much better since then.

Chin up, you're doing great.

DD and DS both will/would comfort feed until they were sick I found. In DS' case with bottles I found this lead to more vomiting than in DD's case (EBF), because after DD has drained the boob I think the flow must be slower/a dribble so she takes less in. Whereas milk ran at a consistent flow with DS's bottles of formula = him taking more in and vomiting a larger amount.

Mm 3rd dc was just like this and was so wide awake and alert but also screamed as if in pain most of the night. It took 5 months and a near nervous break down before he was diagnosed with cows milk protein allergy. He was ff but if you eat dairy it can transfer through bm, of course look into the silent reflux but you could try and cut out dairy in your diet and see if it helps. I think the most important thing is to go to the Gp as there is help out there. Hope you get some sleep soon.

DD almost 9 weeks old now....

DD has made some progress in the sleep front. Iam getting her to have some regular naps in the day with some gentle pursuasion but she really seems to have no real ability to self settle....

Anyways, I'm not really leaving the house at the moment so I can concentrate on getting DD to nap when she's been awake for hour and half....she would fight sleep even worse if we were out somewhere and won't sleep in her pram....I'm trying to avoid overtired meltdowns at the end of the day...
But I'm thinking, if I had a toddler what would I do then?! I couldn't confine them to the house too for 6 months, so would I just have to let her cry whilst out and about and Does this help her learn what to do (I.e. Go to sleep) quicker? Am I 'indulging her' by staying in to make her nap?
I feel like going around in ever decreasing circles and am exhausted.

DH going back to work in a week and I'm dreading it. Don't know how I'm going to cope without him helping so much at night as DD refusing to sleep in her cot. We put her in fast asleep in deep sleep but she then wakes up and it takes ages to settle her back down, and when we have we let her sleep on us...is this the wrong approach?! Are we making things worse for ourselves in the long run?

Also, she seems to be sleeping pretty lightly during her 'REM' sleep cycle and when she's in a deep sleep you can almost set your watch by it.....35-40 mins in when she switches from deep to light/REM sleep and ping! She wakes up. She realises she is awake with a start and screeeeeeeams!!!

One last Qs.....how much sleep in the day roughly do babies this age need? If she sleeps for about 9-10 hrs on and off between 8pm and 9am (on me or DH, I wish I wish she would do it in her cot!!) then how long should her day naps be roughly?

I feel so lost with all of this, and so tired I can't see the problem clearly anymore.... :(

Meant to say she is also having all day naps on me at the moment too.... So I'm getting no break from things long enough to cook/shower etc. really don't know what I'm going to do when DH back at work :(

You poor thing. She sounds like my first. He never napped and he wouldn't self settle. In the end i just let him sleep on me. As he got bigger we co slept. I just had to get my sleep any which way
He is 11 now and slept alone from 2 yrs.

The contented little baby book and the baby whisperer answers all your questions have all that info. I recommend both.

Swaddle; dark room; 3 hourly routine; and leave her to cry to settle herself to sleep for ten mins, if your sure she's fed and winded, and ready for sleep.
So sorry your going through this.

Just want to vote for the white noise. It has to be loud. I used to stand under the extractor fan in the kitchen, when dd was screaming it was on high, then as she settled on my shoulder id switch it to medium then finally low as she fell asleep. Then the terrifying ascent to the cot. As she got older I used to put my hairdryer on when I put her down, again on high then lowering the speed as she quietened down. Also I swore by the late afternoon nap. An enforced sleep between 4pm-5pm improved everything. I would walk for an hour with her in the sling, as time went on I could put her in the car seat on the kitchen floor under the extractor fan for this nap.

Remons me, dh would go on up ahead of us and warm her cot sheet with the hairdryer, lest het slumber would be disturbed by a cold sheet. Such a prima Donna!