to utterly disagree with the Government's stance on fracking?

[deeedeee]

to think if New York, Quebec, New Brunwick, Holland have all banned fracking in the last month then you'd expect our government to be doing the same, not giddily offering tax breaks.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-30525540
www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/dec/17/new-york-state-fracking-ban-two-years-public-health
montrealgazette.com/news/quebec/couillard-rules-out-fracking
globalnews.ca/news/1734016/nb-government-to-introduce-fracking-moratorium/

All these places have listened to increasing scientific studies and say that the risks to public health are too great. Compare this to our prime minister's approach. www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/dec/16/cameron-windfarm-subsidies-onshore-energy

This government is not protecting our health and environment. We all need to look into why and ask them to stop.

The prime minister thinks that opposition will magically disappear when they have steam rollered through the infrastructure bill and wells are up and running www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-25735548

How does this compare to the fact that the UK's only current well has already caused two earthquakes and already leaked?

www.huffingtonpost.com/mark-ruffalo/the-science-on-fracking_b_6336392.html

Rale, apologies for repeating a post up thread, but you obviously didn't read it

The main report supporting the government's position is the 2012 Royal Academy of Engineering (RAE) & the Royal Society report royalsociety.org/policy/projects/shale-gas-extraction/report/. This reports supports the idea that fracking can be regulated well enough in the UK to manage the risk.

The report omits a key consideration: the RAE’s ex-President is Lord Browne, Chairman of Cuadrilla, the UK’s leading fracker. Lord Browne was head of the RAE – co-author of the report – until last year. Browne owns 30% of Cuadrilla and works inside government as a non-executive director to the Cabinet Office. The RAE is also part funded by the oil and gas industry. In the last three years the RAE has taken £601,000 from ExxonMobil, Shell, BP and Petrofac (an oil services company) – all of whom have links to fracking (see the RAE’s financial reports here). Robert Mair, the Chairman of the report, is a fellow of the RAE.

The influence of the oil and gas industry on the RAE has not decreased with Lord Browne’s departure. His successor – Sir John Parker – is also a scion of the fracking industry. Before taking over at the RAE, Parker headed Anglo American, which has fracking interests in in South Africa. Parker is a gas man through and through – some of his previous positions include non-executive director at British Gas, Chairman of National Grid Transco (gas & electricity distribution) and non-executive of BG Group (which has coal bed methane interests in Scotland).

This report is therefore not independent. and neither is the position it supports. So therefore "the current governments position on fracking is based on recommendations by independent engineering authorities" is far from the truth.

There are many vested interest in this. and they aren't ours.

Despite what we get repeatedly told, there are no specific regulations governing onshore unconventional oil and gas extraction (fracking) in the UK. We're told we have 'gold standard' regulations in Britain, but unlike places like Texas - who have had a long history of onshore fossil fuel exploitation - the UK has no fracking-specific laws in place.

Our health, environment, wildlife, countryside and communities are being put at risk so a very few people can earn a lot of money in a short period of time on an industry that even the most ardent pro-fracker will admit is short-term. We have to stop this industry before it gets started.

You can find a fully referenced archive of the harm caused by fracking here: frack-off.org.uk/mounting-evidence-the-harm-caused-by-fracking

All UK applications and licences: frack-off.org.uk/extreme-energy-fullscreen/

See all UK community groups here: frack-off.org.uk/local-group-specific-pages/

New UK fracking licensing threat: frack-off.org.uk/new-uk-fracking-licenses-confirmed/

and to be clear, that is the first time in the entire thread I have posted a link to a campaign group. Every other link I have posted has been independent.

If you are reading this and are concerned though frack-off is an amazing organisation and a good place to see whether there is a licence sold by you and whether their is a comity group by you that you can join. All the staff are volunteers who have given up their jobs to try and raise awareness. Their only funding comes from Lush community fund (you know, the one you are supporting when you by their charity pot).

Also to add to DeeeDeees post.

The RAE report lists a number of measures to be taken when fracking. These are used as evidence that the industry is regulated. However the truth is many of these measures are just recommendations. There is no consequence to industry if they are not implemented. In our experience here in Sussex, not all of the recommendations were followed, yet they had permission to go ahead and drill anyway.

I said on the last thread that falling oil price would make fracking very unprofitable and that the whole business would stop.

The oil price indeed has collapsed since that thread and fracking firms in the USA in the Backen area are going bust as are tar sands firms in Canada.

Saudi Arabia has engineered an oil price collapse in order to stop the fracking boom dead in it tracks. Saudi Arabia has huge amounts of oil and is determined to stop alternative oil supplies coming on stream.

The whole issue issue of fracking is going away.

More Beta, I hope you're right. My fear is that it just gives more ammunition to a fracking boom, under the guise of "energy independence".

deedee - It is a simple transitionary energy source. Completely unsustainable. Completely unviable below the cost of production. Unless Big Energy can get the oil price back up above $80 a barrel, it's not worth exploring in the UK. But it will always lurk there as a spectre, because the legislation is in place, and people are inherently greedy and will not be inconvenienced when energy prices rise. The British public will insist on cheap energy, and both the government and the populous will be against a minority attempting to stand in the way of heating UK homes.

You'll have your Greenham Common moment, but you cannot win if you are unable to educate a population who won't buy jumpers and bed sheets over turning their heating up above 18 Celsius.

Agree with you there elephantspoo, I don't understand this "keeping the lights on" rhetoric. Just turn most of the lights off if we can't afford it!!! Save the energy we have for the important things and turn everything else off.

Don't pollute and endanger public health searching for more energy. Or rather don't justify the pursuit of wealth for a few by the a lie of cheap energy for everyone. It's the emperors new clothes, and the behaviour on an addict on a massive scale.

You cannot stop the pursuit of wealth by those who own energy. You cannot educate a mass population that has been taught from the cradle for over 100 years, how to think, by the very same people you are in dispute with.

You may delay a small battle somewhere, temporarily. But the only winning move in this game is not to play at all.

Fracking needs oil prices of $60 - 80 per barrel.

There is a glut of oil and looks like the Saudis are not going to back off on the amount they produce and no one else can afford to cut back on production so the glut will continue.

MoreBeta - It's a temporary price war. It will,not last long. 18 months from now well be back above $100 a barrel, but some of that price move will be a decline in the value of the dollar.

Just like to point out the lies used by the anti-brigade have been banned - Independent news story

Hi CarolDecker -

More accurately as quoted from the article:

"It is understood that the informal decision by the ASA upheld a number of specific complaints about the brochure, but also found that other claims made in the brochure, including those over burning gas flares and a lack of fracking-specific environmental regulation, were valid."

Here's a good website from an oil/gas engineer's perspective - the video clips are interesting : www.shalegasoffice.com/ (aswell as all the links to peer reviewed scientific journal articles)

New to this post and I havn't read it all. so apologies if I missed this.

But the OP and the anti's are talking about frakking in the UK as if it were a new thing.
It Isn't. frakking shale has been going on without anyone noticing in the UK for well over 50 years.

If frakking was dangerous we would have known by now.

and it does not kill millions of birds, like wind, or put £100 a year on your energy bills either.

Hi Dodged, it isn't the same type of fracking, it's new and different.The difference has been described earlier on in the thread. Fracking for shale gas and oil is different in some important ways to the type of fracking that has been used in the UK previously.

Frakking is safe. Being cold is not safe.
Last year there were over 18,000 excess deaths over the winter period, the year before it was over 31,000.

People need cheap, plentiful and reliable energy.
People do not need an extra 100 pounds per year on their energy bills to pay for touchy feely 'feel good' policies. That figure will rise to over £180 in the next few years as the effects of the climate change act start to bite

Dodged - fracking is not likely to lead to cheap, plentiful reliable energy - as discussed earlier in the thread.

Regarding safety - if you don't want to read the whole thread then please just watch this - it's an oil and gas engineer speaking at an EU summit - he highlights some of the problems and reiterates that fracking is new to the UK. It is not about being touchy feely.

yep, thanks for that link flipflop. and your point is ?

Mike Hill is 100% behind fracking in the UK, provided it's done properly.
Same here, I am 100% behind coal, nuclear, hydro, gas, hydrates and fracking

provided it's done properly.

you are opposed to fracking, even if it's done safely

How do you know what I am opposed to??
My point is that there has only been one well fracked in the UK and it went wrong.
My point is that the regulation is not yet in place, yet fracking is still being permitted to go ahead.
My point is that some people really don't know what they are supporting when they support fracking - for example people who think that fracking is ok as it's being going on in the UK for years.