obesity as a disability is very damaging for the truely disabled

[twoopsie]

So now the EU says that obisity can be treated as a disability.

Sets a worrying precedence. Does anyone remember that episode of the Simpsons.

Before people start flaming me with genuine medical reasons for obesity, these are a very small minority but obviously do exist and the obesity is a side affect, not the aliment.

I think the ruling has it right by saying that obesity can lead to physical disability, and in those cases it should be treated as such.

I am morbidly obese. My BMI is more than double that of a 'normal' weight. I work full time (in a decent but stressful job that pays well, I often work 50/60 hour weeks, manage a large team etc). I have a 20 mo DD who I run around after, take to toddler groups, the park and carry around (I babywear and have no trouble carrying my daughter on woodland walks etc), I don't struggle to get around, I'm fine to walk up 4 flights of stairs to my office without being too out of breath, I don't have diabetes, joint or heart issues. By no means do I think I am healthy (and in fact i am disgusted with myself for being this way) but I am definitely not disabled, and I wouldn't want anyone to consider me as such.

However, some people of my weight/BMI are physically disabled by their weight. They can't live a 'normal' life, and for those people I think ensuring work places etc make reasonable adjustments can only be good thing.

Oh god, Misc.

It comes to something when you're glad to find out another human being is deliberately causing your suffering, rather than yet another avenue of alleviation has failed.

I have been on general acute psych wards and an EDU and I have NEVER EVER come across someone on a general psych ward for food addiction. You are having a laugh.

How the hell a so called registered nurse can distinguish between "genuine" and none-genuine mental health problems? Many people I know with schizophrenia and bipolar self-medicate with alcohol and drugs and I know depressives who drown their sorrows with ale.

I do not believe you are a nurse. You might be some HCA, I have met a few while an inpatient whose attitude absolutely stink and I genuinely believe take the job to bully and abuse vulnerable people. Thankfully HCAs like this are in the minority but I have met a few.

So come on April Anne, NAME the hospital you work in.

But Silver you are legally allowed to dismiss anyone unfit to do their job! disabled or not. You are required to make reasonable adjustment though.

Tinkly
you are legally allowed to dismiss anyone unfit to do their job! disabled or not
Yeah Right.
Try it.
The day they get registered as disabled they become unsackable - even when they are a risk to themselves, their colleagues, the clients.
There will always be a fee chasing lawyer ready to take the case on for a cut of the money.

Still waiting for the name of this psych unit which treats food addiction.

I cant get a psych referral for self harm, eating issues and multiple suicide attempts as my 13 years of ongoing depression is deemed 'moderate'. If there is somewhere in the country that treats eating addiction on the nhs, i'd love to know the area as they sound like they might actually help me too.

So joining ral in her request for the name please :)

I cannot get a psych referral and they have sectioned me twice and last time I went so manic I was too ill for a normal ward and went in PICU!

I started with a private psychologist last week and first appointment she thinks I am dual Dx and I have this big Asperger's test thing Monday so I am totally bricking it about that.

I have seen alcoholics and drug addicts on IP psych wards. They are either there to detox or because they have substance induced psychosis. I always make a point of staying away from the heroin addicts on the first 2 days of detox as they can be right cantankerous when they are rattling, but after that I get on with them fine. I see them as having genuine MH issues.

ralther
I know of an NHS psych unit that is willing to give assessments for defense of criminal theft charges on the basis of "shopping addiction"

gross misuse of NHS resources IMHO
luckily the jury saw through it and the person went to jail

So many goady posters on this thread.

specialsubject my ex was diagnosed with a condition that if she continued riding would end up with her being disabled. She continued riding and is now disabled, where should the fault lie with that?

an assessment is very different from an IP admission. IP admissions are very costly to the NHS and with all the cut backs you can only get a bed now if you are a risk to yourself or someone else.

also talkin I lost my job in an absolutely horrible disability discrimination lawsuit which I won. It was appalling and the way you talk about disability discrimination is really demeaning to someone who has genuinely been through it.

ralther
I see it from many sides - but this ruling will weaken the protection faced by many others

Well it is many years since I dismissed someone for lack of capability. But in a HR job in a former career, I did so regulatrly. We followed procedures and the letter of the law, we made reasonable adjustments, we made every effort to redeploy. We also sought to retire on medical grounds, with full pension, whenever possible. I don't recall any subsequent tribunals, let alone losing any.

These are doubtless the same ones who think any sports injury is self-inflicted and we should all stay on the sofa."

You're saying two different things there, specialsubject.

Sports injuries are, essentially, self-inflicted.

But I for one don't conclude that we should therefore all stay on the sofa.

I conclude we should stop being such judgey fuckers about how disabilities are incurred, and get on with accommodating them.

We all benefit from being able to go about our lives - even to indulge in expensive and dangerous leisure activities - in the knowledge that if we're one of the unlucky ones, we won't have to go into court to try to prove someone else is at fault in order to afford medical care, personal care or food on the table.

At least, we used to be able to: not since the cuts.

forth valley

I know there are some private mental health hospitals that treat food addictions but NHS?! Do you really have so few people with serious mental illnesses that you have the space?

People with food related problems (inc. food addiction i'd guess) can be referred to NHS Dieticians.

When I gained weight due to medication I was eligible to see an NHS Dietician. She was very helpful. Because I have problems with binge eating when I'm bored / fed up etc. she tried CBT with me which has helped me to stop & think when I eat.

So the NHS can help obese people with food problems in that way.

Yanbu. I saw on the news that 23% of adults fall into the obese category. The EU has a lot to answer for with this.

Miscellaneous, I am very confused. I thought this was a thread about a court case on legal rights for disabled people? How can you say that my point "isn't very relevant"?

I am struggling to construe your concession that "your points I'm sure are very interesting" as something other than patronising. I'll keep trying .

The non-legal definition of "disabled" was until fairly recently quite narrow and very uncertain in most people's eyes. It equated to something like "people in wheelchairs and the blind". Now, thanks to the EU Equal Treatment Directive and the Equality Act 2010, we have something in law that is much more certain and useful. In time, people will become accustomed to affording this broader group protective rights and their perceptions of disability will change. This is a good thing.

However, in setting out these rights, the lawmakers decided to make value judgments, excluding certain types of condition that would otherwise be disabilities, e.g. Alcoholism. They (rightly) left out obesity from this list, so the court concluded that this was intentional, and obesity can be a disability.

There are of course some obese people who should not receive legal protection. To include absolutely all of them would make a mockery of disability rights. Where to draw that line is a value judgment and a difficult one to make.

In fact, this is actually exactly the same difficulty that the court had in the First Group bus/buggy case. The judge there said that the law was very clear that there were some non-wheelchair using people whom it would be unreasonable to force to vacate a wheelchair space on a bus for a wheelchair user (e.g. a blind person). Therefore if the bus company were to be forced to ask all non-wheelchair users to vacate the wheelchair space, they (or rather the bus driver) would have to make value judgments about which people were required to move and which were not. The court said this was jot realistic or fair, so said that all the bus driver has to do is ask the non-wheelchair user to move and rely on their goodwill and reasonableness.

So value judgments are everywhere in disability rights, like it or not.

I am not and never was trying to prove you wrong. But the assumption many (hint: this is me trying to de-personalise what should be an interesting debate ) appear to have that opposing this ruling introduces value judgments into disability rights is wrong - they've always been there.