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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To pay DM to look after DSs?

109 replies

Sylviesleep · 07/12/2014 08:39

My DM looks after DSs before and after school 3 days a week. DS 1 8-8:30 then 4-5 and DS 2 8-8:30 then 12-5.
I pay her £250 a month for doing this but we are really struggling to pay her this. DH has never liked the fact that DM asks for money to look after them.
Aibu to pay DM?

OP posts:
Vitalstatistix · 07/12/2014 19:40

you don't dictate to your mother how much she may have for providing you with childcare.

yes, if she wanted to do it for less or for free, that would be lovely of her but she is under no obligation to do so. yes, quite a few grandparents do help out and that's great. It's lovely when family are able to and want to help each other out. I am sure you do as much for her as she does for you, right? It's nice. But it's not compulsory. It is equally a valid choice for a grandparent to not help, to feel that they did their childrearing days and it is a new chapter for them, or to feel that they want to help but there is the little matter of their own bills! perhaps she would quite like a job but chooses to help you instead. For what is not really very much money, tbh. Maybe she needs money to live.

If your husband is not happy, then you and he can always find an alternative.

But you simply cannot say to someone no, I am not going to pay you this amount of money, you will do the same amount for me but I am only going to cover what I feel are your expenses.

Not even if that person is your mother.

LaurieMarlow · 07/12/2014 19:49

Sounds staggeringly cheap to me, but then my local nursery is £90 a DAY (in London, surprise surprise).

It's only fair to pay your mother. She's providing an important service for you, that costs money. I hate this expectation that grandparents should provide free childcare. If you can't afford it, look into other options.

I'm sure your mother would be delighted to learn that your DH thinks she should provide what basically amounts to slave labour.

grannytomine · 07/12/2014 20:03

I have my grandchildren for about 30 hrs a week. I don't even get offered petrol money or anything for food. I wouldn't expect to be paid but it would be nice to be offered something towards the costs. I don't even get anything much for Christmas or birthdays. One year DIL was explaining the special present she was getting her mum (who does no childcare) I got a mug, appropriate?

Vitalstatistix · 07/12/2014 20:08

Mug sounds about the top and bottom of it, granny. You'd think your son would put as much effort into buying something nice for you as his wife does into buying something for her mother.

You know you don't have to provide childcare, if you feel you are being taken advantage of. I'd certainly be rethinking it if they don't appear to appreciate you or worse, if they seem to think you have some sort of obligation to them.

Perhaps you should tell them how you feel?

TreadSoftlyOnMyDreams · 07/12/2014 20:10

Who looks after them when they are ill or on holiday? Do her rates increase those weeks?

MinceSpy · 07/12/2014 20:30

So your mum is providing 35 hours child care per week term time, that works out at around £1.70 per hour. Seems fair to me and excellent value.

antimatter · 07/12/2014 20:41

Who looks after them when they are unwell to go to school?

grannytomine · 07/12/2014 20:44

Vitalstatistix, my son is pretty hopeless with presents, clueless sums it up but he does normally get me something. His ex doesn't bother, I sort of think she should as I help her alot but I suppose she thinks it is up to him but he works fulltime and can't always have them when she wants so if I step in at short notice I think she should acknowledge it in some way. Having said that we get on quite well.

It is difficult as I have done it for 8 years and before they started school I did more. My son and his partner aren't together anymore and I think it doesn't occur to either of them. He is very short of money but always pays her money for the children and pays half towards shoes uniform etc, they had debts when they split up which he has been paying off. If asked I expect he would say he has nothing, she gets benefits for the kids and if she works she should pay. I don't know what she would say.

I wouldn't stop because in a troubled life we have been a constant for them and if I say anything it will probably cause problems.

I think I am feeling a bit tired and sorry for myself, I have had had them both for 7 of the last 9 days. But I love them and wouldn't want to have them much less really.

Imi22sleeping · 07/12/2014 20:44

As a cm you do no that's it's illegallegal for someone to receive any sort of reward to look after children if they are not registered to do so . You shouldn't be paying her in the first place

Aeroflotgirl · 07/12/2014 20:52

Oh grannie that is taking the piss, you are bein walked over and unappreciated. I woukd refuse to do anymore, ungrateful freeloaders!

Purplepoodle · 07/12/2014 21:17

I'm in a low childcare cost area compared to others. My breakfast club and afterschools for yr 1 is £40 a week. I pay more for ds2 as he is in nursery so more hours. So its a reasonable rate plus added advantage of care if your kids are sick which u won't get though after schools.

Purplepoodle · 07/12/2014 21:18

3 days that is

ApocalypseThen · 07/12/2014 21:23

I think grannie illustrates the problem very well. People rarely value what they don't pay for. That's why I think the OP's mum is right. She should have some value on her time and effort - it seems like if she didn't stand up for herself she'd be taken for granted very quickly indeed.

PurpleSwift · 07/12/2014 21:31

By accepting you money, what you're mother is doing is illegal. To be doing that much paid child care she MUST be registered and paying taxes etc. Does she know this?

Ragwort · 07/12/2014 21:50

Purple as someone else said earlier in the thread, there must be thousands and thousands of relatives providing care for family members and receiving some form of 'payment' - is the Law Hmm really going to go around prosecuting all those people?

PurpleSwift · 07/12/2014 23:20

So because it's unlikely they'll be caught and prosecuted, that makes it okay? Riiiight then.

YonicScrewdriver · 07/12/2014 23:49

Should I get paid by my son / daughter to look after their child?

This may be an important issue for you to discuss at the outset. One common arrangement is for parents cover the grandparents’ expenses (lunch, outings etc). A minority of parents do pay grandparents for providing childcare, but many grandparents are quite happy to look after their grandchildren for nothing. When that is the case, parents may choose to treat the grandparents to a meal out or small gifts as a way to say thank you.

Legally, they can also give you money if they wish, but if this is a payment for childcare rather than a gift, then you become their employee. An employer-employee relationship entails certain rights and responsibilities including potential tax liability (depending on your total income).

For general advice on the legal aspects of employment you can contact ACAS. For advice on the tax implications, contact TaxAid.

www.grandparentsplus.org.uk/grandparents-helping-childcare

Maki79 · 08/12/2014 00:13

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the posters request.

TakemedowntoPotatoCity · 08/12/2014 00:31

you can get round the issue by calling it a gift, not sure if there is a limit to the amount you can 'gift' though.

LayMeDown · 08/12/2014 00:44

£250 A MONTH? God that's a bargain. My childminder works similar hours 8 to 9 am and 12.30 to 5. I have 3 so she has more than 1 in the afternoon for most of the time. But still I pay her €240 A WEEK for 3 days. I am happy to pay her this because she has a wonderful relationship with my kids and truly cherishes them. I know she needs to earn a living wage and I don't want her to get another job.
You are getting good quality childcare for a very reasonable price. You should be grateful for that not expecting that it should be provided for free.

YonicScrewdriver · 08/12/2014 00:46

Maki, I think that would only work if the GM then took non family children as well.

Darkandstormynight · 08/12/2014 00:54

If you can't find anything cheaper/better than I'd just keep her at the same rate. If it was between a club for the same price and your dm (assuming that she was providing good care and not just the very minimum) I'd just pay your dm.

There is no way that I'd do CM even for a relative for free unless there was some huge 'good' reason why they couldn't pay.

Bulbasaur · 08/12/2014 00:56

I wouldn't stop because in a troubled life we have been a constant for them and if I say anything it will probably cause problems.

And therein lies the problem. They're clearly taking you for a ride, and emotionally blackmailing you to boot. But causing waves about it and refusing to do it hurts the children more than the parents.

That really is very shitty what they're doing to you. Angry

But you're a good granny to your GC's by putting them first and providing them some stability. Flowers

Cut your son out of the inheritance and only give it to the GC's Wink

OP:

If anyone other than your mother was doing this service you would be expected to pay them and taken to court if you didn't. You need to pay her like you would any other CM, and frankly she's offering you a damn good deal. A lot of places charge that much a week. Good luck finding a better deal. If you truly can't afford it you need to down size and figure out a workable budget. But expecting someone to work for free is just wrong.

Darkandstormynight · 08/12/2014 01:11

granny I so feel for you. You are lovely for doing what you do but honestly you should at the very, very least get paid 'expenses'!

My own mum, when I got married, laid it on the line for me. She told me in no uncertain terms that she was never going to be cm for my kids if I ever had them. She'd be the best gm ever, and she'd love them and see them but as for being permanent cm, she wanted no part of it, paid or not.

I was shocked! Really aghast! Here my soft spoken mum was telling me this - I at that point thought I was unable to have children! I was really offended!

Fast forward (sadly mum has passed) 13 years, we have our own ds (that I WAS able to have) whom I love dearly. I've Already told him I'm not cm for him! Like I said, unless it was that or children would be in the street, I'm not interested on a permanent basis either at all! Not cm doesn't mean you wouldn't love them.

Anyway, granny, I'm sorry this is how you are being treated.

grannytomine · 08/12/2014 07:51

Thank you for supportive comments. I feel better after a nights sleep but I think it is a difficult area. Ultimately I won't let the GC down. My son pays more than CSA rates to his ex and I have thought of saying to him that as I feed them, pick up from school (petrol) take to afterschool activities (petrol) then maybe he could give me the amount above CSA level but I don't know if it is worth it.

I suppose one of my worries is if one day my other kids end up on here moaning that mum did all this for brothers children and doesn't do it for them. No win isn't it.

Sorry OP didn't mean to hog your thread, just struck a chord.