To pay DM to look after DSs?

[Sylviesleep]

My DM looks after DSs before and after school 3 days a week. DS 1 8-8:30 then 4-5 and DS 2 8-8:30 then 12-5.
I pay her £250 a month for doing this but we are really struggling to pay her this. DH has never liked the fact that DM asks for money to look after them.
Aibu to pay DM?

Oh yes miles, I counted ds2 till 4, but it's 5 so that's 21 hours a week? Which is under £3. So when you break it down OP, does your dh think working for less than that is unreasonable? Does you dm take ds2 to any groups or activities? Do you pay expenses on top or is that from the money you pay also? And food?

Mrs I only mean the hours her littlest is at Nursery. Wrap aroubd care for an older child is one thing, but dropping the littlest off at nursery, travel home, back to nursery for twelve? Sorry but that is no.time at all to herself and should be paid for.

But would you pay a proper cm for that is my question really. I wouldn't.

MrsK - yes, a lot of CMs will bill for the time at nursery as they cannot fill the space, they will take the child if nursery is closed for any reason etc. Which is why many parents using CMs don't take up the nursery hours!

Wow, I did not know that. I just assumed like most self employed people they bill for the hours worked and all gaps ar incorporated into that cost, just like holiday and sick pay. I just can't see how anyone can afford to work!

Threads like this just make me feel sad and angry for grandparents who are expected to provide childcare. It's just so wrong.

My friend completely takes the piss out of her mother in terms of childcare. Her poor mum is absolutely shattered and hugely put upon four days a week (many hours of child care and nursery and having to do nursery and school runs) but she won't say anything to her daughter. My friend is too blinkered to even see how unfair she is being.

MrsK, I think some CMs are registered EYFS providers and can therefore get the free hours. It's simply a terms of business thing - if you are looking after a child for a full day until they are three and then that's cut back by three hours a day in which you can't take on another client (especially as many clients will need school holiday cover) then you. Can either seek a new under three year old to fill a full day or charge something for the unusable hours to the original client.

MrsK, I think some CMs are registered EYFS providers
all CM's are EYFS providers.
All Cm's that are "good" or above can provide the 15 hours of EYFE ( early yesrs funded education).
The EYFS is the educational "syllabus" which they all have to follow.

See if your mum will work for free and maybe sign her house over to you too.

What 'expenses' does your DH think should be covered?

I am sure she muse feed them, take them places etc. Remove that from the £250 and her hourly rate is very little!

At a legal level, your mother is almost certainly your employee here isn't she? Are you doing proper payroll or do you have a nasty liability if HMRC find out?

At a moral level, your husband is being an arse. Your mother's time and commitment has value. He is saying it doesn't.

If you are paying her then is he registered as self employed and does she have the relevant liability insurance? If not are you the employer and do you have it? At that rate she wont be liable for tax as her income is below £10,000 but being self employed she will be able to pay NI.

We are not comparing like for like. A registered child carer whether childminder or nursery has to work within regulation and deliver the EYFS. They cant just pop out shopping for the day with the child in tow like your family member can etc. So comparing the price is a red herring as they are not comparable.

simba- it isn't up to the mother whether to register as self employed. The law would decide, and unless there is a family exemption I am not familiar with, it would consider her an employee.

She cant be your employee unless you pay are prepared to pay the national minimum wage- so she would need to be self employed.

If you are on a low wage then you may be eligible for help with childcare costs if they are with a registered provider.

PenguinsandtheTantrumofDoom

That isnt' strictly true. She would have to look against the tests of self employment- the issue might be that she only offers this service to 2 children- however were she to offer it more widely she would need to register as a childminder- so catch 22. She could also work through an umbrella if she had concerns. Self employment is not always as rigid as working through a limited company and IR35 etc - she is below the tax threshold and so there is no tax avoidance.

Excatly Simba- I see no way she would pass the test of self employed. One client. At their home. Hours and details of work specified by them. She is basically a nanny, who is most definitely an employee. They can't just decide she's self employed because she's paid below NMW, the authorities would see it as an employee who was paid below NMW, not a cause for genuine self employment.

She's above the current NI threshold too, isn't she, even though income tax wouldn't be an issue? So employer NI liability is potentially a big problem.

www.mumsnet.com/jobs/childcare-by-a-relative

She should have insurance though- and tell her home insurance that she is taking money for minding children.

I have dgs's after school two days a week now but when they were younger I did full or half days as asked, never less than two days or more than three. I couldn't take a penny unless I was in dire need although dd has offered.

PenguinsandtheTantrumofDoom

Her total income is £3000 and so she is also below the NI threshold for both personal and employers NI. There is no NI due but she may opt to pay it as self employed.

Sorry Simba, yes. I misread how much she was being paid (I do actually know about the law on this area, I promise, but I was normally advising on much higher paid individuals).

Although she doesn't have to register as a childminder, I'm also unclear about how the law would see her for things like employment rights though

financialwizard "I thought it was illegal for a family member to have your children for more than 2 hours per day unless they were a childminder."

You seriously think it's illegal for grandparents, for example, to look after their grandchildren for more than 2 hours a day unless they are childminders?
There must be a hell of a lot of criminals out there.

I think your mum should be paid at least twice what you are paying her.

It's being paid to childmind without being registered that's the potential issue. Grandparents can look after for free, no problem.

i paid my mother - still do - to nanny my kids for years. It worked really well - it means we had a 'working relationship' and a 'mother/daughter' relationship. I never felt guilty about asking her to do xyz, nor she begrudging it. I knew she was rather strapped for money, so i was helping her; i needed childcare so she was helping me.

As the kids have grown we have renegotiated the tasks and money. Now, she just picks my kids up from school (doesn't do their tea or whatever now) so i can work full time hours and is first port of call with their senior school in case they need to come home ill or whatever. she now does the family ironing which i pay for. I am paying for freedom during the working week, to focus on my work. It means i have more fun time available to be with my kids. It means she has income that she needs. She sees loads of my kids and has a great relationship with them.

perfect solution in my book

That's a very very low rate of pay. And being the GM there is all sorts of value bring added in emotional terms. If you're struggling to pay that, do you have a cheaper alternative?