to half hope bipolar goes the same way as homosexuality?

[Mitchy1nge]

when homosexuality came out of the DSM

Canard, it takes time to develop that richer insight. It's often a shock diagnosis at a crisis point where you are desperate for an explanation. Then there's the guns blazing MEDS 4EVA approach of the psychiatrist which feels very serious. I think the period of overindentification/investment can be a necessary step for people to get a handle on things. When you've had a massive episode you've often done a lot of damage to jobs, relationships. Coupled with being told medication is the answer to something that may have been part of you. Your identity is stripped down. You have to rebuild it. Maybe at first as a victim. Maybe later medication makes you feel more in control and legitimises your experiences. And by opening up about them you can get a richer understanding of yourself. I roll my eyes when I hear bipolar (or possibly not) people talk about how they have 10 mood swings a day which suspiciously seem to flare up when they're being an arsehole to someone. That's not bipolar. But that's the kind of things you need to look at to understand yourself. It takes time.

bigcatface I see that allll the time (the last part). There's a group of women on my facebook and when the 'clique leader' is in a bad mood they'll all be like 'oh the poor dear her bi-polar is starting off again'. No, no it's not at all. She's simply being a twat.

I suffer from bipolar affective disorder (as it is catchily known). I am on Lithium. It is what makes me me and I have therefore chosen to embrace rather than deny it. It does however suck. It can destroy your life, your relationships, your job and your sense of who you are but because it is 'only' in your head it is impossible to properly explain to others what the impact of it can be. It can take years to recover (and mop up the mess) from the impact of a severe manic or depressive episode.

The only similarity to homosexuality is that I believe you are born with the genetic predisposition to it.

Homosexuality and bipolar, aren't comparable. However, there is something behind what you are saying.

Looking at bipolar from the social model of disability perspective, the social attitudes towards your illness/condition are the bit which is disabling. Social attitudes might not account for everything which is shit about having an impairness, illness or long term condition, but they sure as hell make it a lot worse.

By comparison, I have anxiety disorder and OCD. Medical treatment - CBT and anti-depressants - has helped a great deal. However, what has helped just as much is the growth in confidence and self esteem I have experienced from learning that many social attitudes around my condition are incorrect. Eg, I may occassionally have panic attacks or be slightly neurotic but that doesn't mean I am incapable or can't be trusted. Moreover, my compulsive thoughts do not make me a "monster" or an evil person.

Equally, for many gay, lesbian and bisexual people, life got better when they - and society at large - started to recognise that that social attitudes and not homosexuality itself was the problem.

So yes, to some extent I do see what you are saying, and I do believe that the social model can be very empowering. That doesn't mean that an actual mental illness and a sexual orientation are comparable - it just means that society can learn from how it has made lives better in the latter instance what it can do in the former (indeed towards all disabled people).

I also don't think that the social model is a fully cohesive and all-encompassing explanation. Frankly, (using my personal eg) society could be supportive and tolerant to the back teeth and it would still be shit and it would still be an illness for me to stop shaking in a cold sweat in the middle of the street because I am overcome by a compulsive thought that I'm going to harm my dearest loved ones. However, recognising that the DSM/medical diagnosis aspect is only one part of the issue is very important.

The argument in simple terms is that society tries to make people fit in with its own social norms. Therefore making it almost impossible for anyone outside of these norms to lead normal lives or 'function' in society.
If society changed its social constructs, removed stigma, maybe people could function more successfully and be happier in their own skins.

This is not a new concept and has been around since at least the sixties. I can see the comparison with gayness as all OP is saying is that this used to be pathologised as well.

I say all this as an agent of the state whose job gives me power to make decisions regarding people with MH issues and trying to protect them. I have also been an MH service user and I do understand where the OP is coming from.

I hope it doesn't.

On a sample size of 1.

Someone I know who wen unwell with her bipolar decided to strip naked and play with the children in a school play ground.

I'd much rather she was treated (which is what did happen) than end up with a criminal conviction.

After caring for someone with bipolar I can assure you she might not be alive without drugs and sometime in hospital. I think you are misinformed and maybe need to spend time in your day to go work with people with enduring mental illness. I do agree about stigma and prejudice.

yeah what swingball said I think

a bit more acceptance and tolerance :)

Do you get a lot of intolerance?

I can imagine you might when applying for jobs etc where you might have to tell them, but mostly people won't know will they.

The impression I have (which is probably what the average person in the street thinks) is that bipolar is a condition that is controlled by medication. So like epilepsy I wouldn't give it a thought unless you were talking about it.

What?? Bipolar disorder needs careful continual management and treatment, went through twice of an ex coming off lithium and then falling into mania, audibly hallucinating, not sleeping, private treatment, drugging to eyeballs till brain quietens and lithium kicked back in.

I dont see how you relate that with homosexuality?

I am frustrated by people cheapening this disorder confusing it with OCD.

I agree that the stigma behind mental illness needs to change and there needs to be more awareness of conditions, and their management and how people are in some cases are able to live regularish lives with these afflictions.

But that isnt everyone's experience of bipolar, BreakingDad. There's the thing. I get so fucking tired of people thinking bipolar = 'must be a delusional paranoid mess unless she is drugged up to her eyeballs on lithium'

Bipolar is more complex a spectrum than that.

My experience tells me that people meet one bipolar person and think they know them all. Much like with autism. Not all people with autism are like Rainman etc etc.

And THAT is stigma and stereotyping, and it affects everyone with BP. It affects you even if you never tell a soul (I rarely disclose). It is THE reason I rarely disclose.

Slight derailing again, but had to say it.

There is stigma and stereotyping yes. That much it has in common with other societal prejudices.

But regardless of where you are on the spectrum, surely saying that you hope bipolar ceases to be defined as an illness is just odd? Bipolar may be a spectrum disorder but doesn't mean that its definition as a mental illness is wrong.

I'm so so glad I've never experienced any sort of stigma or prejudice with mine. People are always interested, but in a good way. Jobs have always been supportive, university was.. I do think society is coming along well.

Erm, if bipolar wasn't regarded as an illness would people with it not have to take full responsibilty for the impact of their behaviour? eg staying in bed for weeks could legitmately be regarded as lazy selfishness and screaming and threatening people as abusive and criminal behaviour?

Surely seeing it as an illness enables tolerance and forgiveness for these kinds of behaviours as manifestations of the condition rather than the person's choice/ true personality

or they could be accepted as people who experience greater than average fluctuations in mood and energy

as canard suggested, an environment that is supportive of good mental health can prevent many people from ever becoming unwell in the first place

That's a bit too wishy washy for me though mitchy if you don't mind me saying. Like who's to say what is average? What's greater than average? Also t's not simply about mood and energy (as I'm sure you know as I think I read you too have a diagnosis)

This is where you get all the people who think having a mood swing means they've got bi-polar - would they then also be able to get the same treatment because, to them, they're experiencing 'greater than average fluctuations'?

We can have good and supportive environments without getting rid of the condition/illness aspect. I think this is a case of calling a spade a spade and not coming up with any PC language that doesn't really benefit anyone in the long run. Especially for workplace rights for instance, surely this would shut down all chances of every winning a discrimination case?

Genuinely interested in your reply mitchy it's a very interesting discussion

I dunno, it must be simple enough to work out an average amount of sleep needed by adult humans at population and individual levels

not sure I understand the question though, can't see the appeal of bipolar treatment if there isn't a whole illness identity attached

(yeah I have the diagnosis and mixed feelings about it)

I wouldn't think it's simple. Like people have said bi-polar is a spectrum. There is no average. There's no set time for mania episodes or depressive episodes. And I'm not sure what you mean about average sleep because that's not generally an indicator of bi-polar, although of course many people have problems sleeping due to the condition; either too much or too little.

Like my example, who's to say someone with mood swings couldn't end up getting treated the same as someone with bi-polar? I'm not sure that would be right or fair for either one of them. I don't just mean medically, I mean in relation to rights at work, discrimination laws etc.

For example, it wouldn't be fair for someone who's just being a miserable sod to claim sick days off work, the same as someone who has a legitimate condition that creates a mood imbalance.

I get what you're saying in theory, I just don't think it would work or be beneficial.

Do you think you would have preferred not to have been diagnosed do you think mitchy? Please don't feel you need to answer that by the way I'm just interested as to how you feel

Grays I got unlawfully sacked from my job as a doctor due to bipolar and won at tribunal. My family ripped me off my tribunal pay out and life savings.

Prize for discriminatory attitude goes to my sister a practicing Gp she once told me to fuck off and kill myself when I had depression. So I wrote her an email telling her if she continued in the line I would report her to the GMC as no practicing doctor should say that. Next thing she texted me saying the police were arriving. I waited 48 hours and no coppers showed. So I went down to the local police station to find out what the hell was going on. She had made a report I was violent and threatening and they needed to put me on a section 135/6. Police seargent met with me and said he was not sectioning me as he did not feel I was ill and an email threatening to report a professional to their governing body does not constitute an offence in criminal law. I was terrified because they had the word of a practicing doctor I would get slung in the cells, but the seargent let me go.

that's absolutely horrifying ralther

yes I would very much prefer never to have been diagnosed!

I'm glad you won but sorry it happened to you and sorry you got ripped off :( I think if bi-polar was no longer classed as a condition though you wouldn't have won though would you? Because it wouldn't be discrimination as you'd no longer be protected.

Oh my, that is absolutely disgusting of your sister. I really wish you had reported her. She doesn't sound stable! I hope you're okay now.

Yours sounds different but I can only share what I experienced. Ex was given sedative drugs by us (prescribed by private practitioner were given option to section but chose latter, ex parents loaded) to bridge until lithium levels enough to return her to normal.

When on lithium you would not have know she had any problems at all.

She had a friend who had had ECT treatment which.... I dont know... it works but just seems so weird. She did seem a bit kooky.

But this leads to another thing when is being eccentric/odd too much and the state needs to step in? Are aware of this as dad is losing marbles to dementia.

I never ASKED for a diagnosis. Just got scooped up and stuck in the revolving door of hospital/'assertive outreach' for a while.

Am sure it must feel very different if you know something is wrong and you want it to change.