to half hope bipolar goes the same way as homosexuality?

[Mitchy1nge]

when homosexuality came out of the DSM

what about gender dysphoria? that was a mental disorder (gender identity disorder) until DSM 5 and it still is depending upon the individual's response to the intolerant society that constructed it

bipolar was a good choice in some ways, when I was diagnosed my (NHS consultant) psych encouraged me to see it as a gift, closely bound up with all the artistic endeavours of human life throughout history - and rattled off a list of famous people who had all killed themselves

Just because homosexuality was at one point mislabelled as a mental illness doesn't mean that other mental illnesses are mislabelled!

I think bipolar and other mental illnesses should be MORE medicalised, in that they should be treated the same as any other medical condition, such as diabetes, dyslexia, etc.

Not attaching a label to a condition doesn't make the condition go away, it just leaves the person bewildered as to why their brain or body doesn't work the way the majority of people's do, why they function differently. It also prevents them from accessing assistance to help them to either navigate their way through the world, or to simply survive.

You can't prevent a feeling of 'other', all people are 'other' in some aspect of their lives, gender, colour, culture, citizenship, education, etc, etc, etc.

What is needed is to prevent people seeing 'other' as something bad, that being 'other' is somehow worse rather than something equally as valid, just different.

I think I understand you now OP. The criticism that DSM pathologises "normal" behaviour (grief for example) for the benefit of Big Pharma is not new. Each time a new edition is released, it is met by much eye rolling and FFS from mental health practitioners.

I'm not sure where I stand with that at the moment I keep writing then deleting.

So I will have a think then come back.

But, I do have to say, if someone needs to seek treatment because of 'something' to help them maintain a sense of balance then there must be some sort of illness or condition at play.

In what sense 'disingenuous', Grays?
I see why you don't agree with the OP but I don't see how her comparison is dishonest.

yes

am sure there are good arguments for doing away with categorical diagnoses altogether, simply treating individuals with their own symptoms as individuals with their own symptoms but am not wholly persuaded by that personally

am really just 1. so shocked at the position statement (about the removal of homosexuality) that “no doubt, homosexual activists will claim that psychiatry has at last recognized that homosexuality is as “normal” as heterosexuality. They will be wrong.” and 2. a bit freaked out in general that a document that should seek to describe mental illnesses is in fact increasingly creating them

disingenuous doesn't purely mean dishonest, it can be 'false' or 'naive to the point of being insincere'.

I'm quite sure the OP isn't being dishonest, I'd like to clear that up.

Rather than saying you are being unreasonable, I would prefer to reframe your OP say that is is better to have a society which puts the treatment of mental health conditions on the same level as, say, poor eyesight, lefthandedness, trauma injuries or cancer.

Homosexuality should not be treated as an illness because it does not affect a person's ability to live life within normal boundaries. I could introduce the research which shows that homosexuality can be the result of lack of oxygen to the brain at birth. But it is a red herring as it does not automatically follow that homosexuality is then wrong, an illness or any kind of a problem.

(As you've brought up a sexual orientation as a comparison, what about paedophilia, OP? Is that an illness? Is it natural and up to society to adjust? I think this is why there is 'no comparison' with bipolar disorder. I think something like cancer or deafness is a better analogy, as these are becoming more accepted.)

What about being accepted in the same as as Aspergers, as having neurodifferences and not being any worse for not being neurotypical.

PTSD is probably another good example of how we are given a script within which to experience and respond (physically and mentally) to trauma, of how on the one hand a single trauma can be held responsible for all our troubles and on the other its role can be just completely ignored

hmm, faux-naive rather than naive, I'd have thought.
It doesn't matter anyway - the main thing is you're not accusing her of insincerity.

is ok

don't mind being accused of these things

Asperger's is interesting especially as it been swallowed up whole

I certainly don't want to make a case for paedophilia but it's probably fair to suggest that categorising it as an illness hasn't helped to keep children safe so far.

The point is I'm not accusing you of anything Mitchy and I apologise if I gave that impression. :)

is honestly ok, I didn't get that impression

I do however get the impression that I don't often express my thoughts as clearly and helpfully as I'd like

What would you change if you were ruler of the world. What do you think should happen?

I'd start with social inequality

a truly level playing field for everyone, a tolerant society

then I'd see what happened next

so a bit more emphasis on creating that while we continue to advance our understanding of the brain (am actually really excited about all we are still yet to learn) would be cool

I'm a fucking communist

how did that happen?

When I said "What would you change " I meant about bi-polar. Would you want it called a lifestyle choice?

Who said you were 'communist'?

me, I said it there: Mitchy1nge Mon 01-Dec-14 14:10:34

I'm a fucking communist

see?

I actually liked it better when it was called manic depressive insanity I think.

I'm not sure how people with atypical mental function fare under communism! Agree that social inequality needs to be addressed, however one of the difficulties of treating/helping people manage their bipolar is a distinct desire to not take medicine such as lithium, but find if they do take it they are much better.

I think it would be more helpful if the distinction between physical and mental illnesses/ conditions was removed - so that having bipolar disorder or a manic episode was considered in the same light as say a thyroid condition.

Got99 I agree fully with that. I made this point in a discussion the other day. I was talking about the young girl who had been stuck in a police station for days because of her mental health problems, because there were no mental health beds in the whole of the UK to take her - so it was down to the police to look after her.

Imagine if that had been someone with a physical condition being imprisoned?

Shocking.

mitchy I actually preferred the manic depressive term apposed to bi-polar. I think it described it much better.

Just a few points - in clinical practice we define something like psychosis as being a behaviour outside of the cultural norms for that person, so to state we don't think of cultural factors is untrue (similar application would be given to BPAD).

Your comment about PTSD is somewhat offensive to clinicians and those suffering from it - it is very clearly a clinical condition that responds well to clinical intervention, it has a clearly defined set of symptoms that can be crippling for sufferers.

There seems to be a misconception that HCPs are automatons who define all they see in front of them using checklists such as DSM - that is so wrong, we diagnose based on extensive assessment and clinical judgement / experience.

The real issue we have with mental health is the woeful underfunding we have for services. We have always been the poor relations in the NHS and I am afraid that people who seem determined to 'demedicalise' mental health are actually contributing to the stigma / inequality by suggesting that these are not legitimate medical conditions.

The real issue we have with mental health is the woeful underfunding we have for services. We have always been the poor relations in the NHS and I am afraid that people who seem determined to 'demedicalise' mental health are actually contributing to the stigma / inequality by suggesting that these are not legitimate medical conditions

Agree 100%

Yes, me too. Agree with the whole of EvenFlo's post actilually. I think the problems (creation of them and unpicking the problems) lie in the field of politics.