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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to have felt un-Christian about this mobile phone?

240 replies

JeanneDeMontbaston · 30/11/2014 21:30

I have had an beautiful weekend, so I'm really not seething with anger, but wondered what you would make of this!

Earlier today I was at a church service for Advent, with a choir who'd trained very hard. They were excellent, and some of them are children, so it's hard work. The service begins almost completely in darkness, then as the choir progress very slowly up the church, lights come on level with them, until eventually the whole church is lit up. It's meant to represent the light of Christ coming into the world, so it's not just a pretty effect - if you're religious, it is something that has liturgical meaning.

The order of service explained that, because of the darkness, it would sometimes not be possible to read the booklet. We were all in there for at least 20 minutes before the service began, so plenty of time to read the note telling you about this before the lights dimmed, and in any case, we'd all been told weeks ago that the service was partly in the dark.

There was very little congregation participation, but there were two hymns we sung while it was still quite dark. A bloke near me took out his mobile phone and turned on the light, flashing it around, and used it as a torch to read the hymns.

Would you think this was both rude, and actually quite disrespectful? I really thought it was.

OP posts:
JeanSeberg · 01/12/2014 00:11

And why print everything when 2/3 was in the dark? Why not have someone handing out sheets as the lights came on?

Original poster
JeanneDeMontbaston · 01/12/2014 00:12

jean - it didn't spoil it, because it was so lovely, but it did upset me, and I did wonder what other people thought of it. That was why I asked the question in my OP - sorry if that wasn't clear.

OP posts:
Original poster
JeanneDeMontbaston · 01/12/2014 00:12

jean - well, because of the 20+ minutes at the start, I think?

OP posts:
Icimoi · 01/12/2014 00:17

What's the point of printing the hymns on the hymn sheet if people aren't going to be able to see to read them? If they didn't want people to be able to read the words, maybe they should simply have given the hymn titles?

Original poster
JeanneDeMontbaston · 01/12/2014 00:19
Confused

Wouldn't it have been even more odd to print the choir hymns and not the congregational ones?

OP posts:
ErrolTheDragon · 01/12/2014 00:22

I've never heard of those first two either. I don't think either you or the bloke with the phone WBU - the person who made obscure choices for the 'congregational' hymns at a point where they couldn't be read without additional light was.

Cerisier · 01/12/2014 00:23

I think the vicar should have made it crystal clear at the start that phones/torches weren't to be used so everyone knew what to do. I would probably have unwittingly got my phone out in this situation to read the words as I like to sing. I'm forever having to use the torch on my phone in restaurants to read the menu.

Also why didn't they have well known hymns for the participation part in the dark? Most people could belt out a couple of verses of Silent Night from memory.

JeanSeberg · 01/12/2014 00:26

Why choose such obscure hymns? It sounds like you're pissed off that 'outsiders' chose to join in.

Original poster
JeanneDeMontbaston · 01/12/2014 00:29

errol - phew, I thought maybe I was just ignorant.

I am in two minds about it. I think - only guessing - that they were sort of meant to be obscure, as it was meant to be ok we didn't join in. Maybe they thought people would mind not singing a well-known hymn (because in the dark you can't see which verses are included) but would not mind missing something obscure?

I don't know.

ceri - there wasn't a vicar there exactly. There was the dean of the chapel, and there was someone conducting the choir as they went, but they didn't have anyone 'guiding' the service. I know that was deliberate but I think you are right, they needed someone, somewhere, to make an announcement at the start. Because I think just being told in the order of service and by people as we came in, was not enough, because not detailed enough.

It is tricky, though. I feel bad saying that as it feels like faulting the people who did it, and I was just so bowled over by what they achieved. I'm not communicating it well at all, but it was amazing. Very beautiful and moving.

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SolidGoldBrass · 01/12/2014 00:30

Did anyone say at the start of the event that mobile phones should be turned off? If not, then the bloke wasn't really in the wrong. People don't read handouts in detail, on the whole. And if it's such a big deal for it to be all dark and cold and boring then someone should be stating this at the beginning of the event. So everyone either knows what's going on and can do what's required, or can decide that it's not much fun and leave.

mymummademelistentoshitmusic · 01/12/2014 00:30

You said it ruined it for everyone around him.
Don't worry, I doubt the poor bloke will be back.

Original poster
JeanneDeMontbaston · 01/12/2014 00:31

jean - chances are I am more of an 'outsider' than him. I am very new to having anything to do with this. Most people who sat at the dark end were people who would have had the best chance of knowing what was going on. I've never been before, and the majority of people sitting near us would have been before.

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BumpAndGrind · 01/12/2014 00:31

I'm not religious in the slightest but this makes me think of how mad I would be if two people were whispering to each other during a 2 minute silence... utterly disrespectful.

SolidGoldBrass · 01/12/2014 00:32

It sounds a bit like this was a performance where the performers forgot that members of the general public would be there, and wouldn't know what to do. It's a not uncommon mistake, but it generally does lead to upsets.

Original poster
JeanneDeMontbaston · 01/12/2014 00:32

SGB - yep, definitely coming to that conclusion! It needed to be said.

bump - yes, I think it's the same kind of thing.

On the one hand you know that some people might not know the custom, but it is hard not to feel shocked by it. And then (if you're like me) you feel odd about feeling shocked too.

OP posts:
Original poster
JeanneDeMontbaston · 01/12/2014 00:35

SGB - members of the general public weren't there. It's a private chapel - no-one who was there and sitting where he was, hadn't had an invitation explaining what would happen.

I did say upthread, I would really not think it'd be ok to do this somewhere where you might go in on spec. Because if I walked into a church thinking I'd fancy the service, and it turned out to be half in darkness, I might well be annoyed and upset. Especially if, as someone said up thread, I'd brought children who didn't like it. So I do get that.

OP posts:
Original poster
JeanneDeMontbaston · 01/12/2014 00:35

(I'm not actually sure if private chapel is the right term. I mean, it's a chapel that's not always open to everyone, the way you can walk into any parish church and listen.)

OP posts:
Mickeysmonkey · 01/12/2014 01:26

YADNBU. I would find this really quite upsetting, too. It's not a concert or a school nativity play...if the man didn't know the words he should have remained silent or stayed away if he wasn't comfortable in the dark.

Mickeysmonkey · 01/12/2014 01:40

And I find it quite incredible that people think it's okay for an adult to use his cellphone in the middle of a candlelit church service because no-one told him at the start not to do so. Even if you believe that "people don't read handouts" the fact that a) you're in a church and b) it's dark/candlelit should be enough of a guide as to the tone of the service. Honestly, the more I think about it, he seems like a simpleton. Who doesn't turn off their cellphone in church?

aurynne · 01/12/2014 03:33

Surely the magic and awe of the light of Christ should have been enough to keep your focus and concentration without been bothered by one person's phone? Unless you're one of these annoying people who seem to be eagerly waiting for a reason to judge others on minutiae.

velourvoyageur · 01/12/2014 03:44

why were the joining in hymns not sung when it was light, and

why would they provide written hymns if they didn't expect people who didn't know the words to sing

that would be my main problem

BramwellBrown · 01/12/2014 04:11

The phone would have annoyed me a little bit too.

I love O Come Emmanuel, but I think you're right the other two aren't particularly well known, i have heard them both sung by choirs but I wouldn't be able to sing along.

NormaStanleyFletcher · 01/12/2014 04:58

Well this is a lesson in why not to post in AIBU.

FWIW Jean, I am an atheist, but like to respect the religious ceremonies of others. I would never have lit up an effing mobile pho e (or torch) in the circumstances you describe.

goldopals · 01/12/2014 06:19

Wow. Doesn't that church use a projector for special occasions?

TiggerLillies · 01/12/2014 07:00

I'm on the fence. The church is the people, everyone should have been made welcome and allowed to come close to Christ in which ever way they see fit. I've been in a few services where people come in, are disruptive and miss the point of the liturgy, but we would rather them be there than not wouldn't we?
That said, it sounds like lots of hard work went it to this and that it may have ruined the experience for people sitting close to him, it would have been nice for him to be more sensitive!

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