To think you can't just trundle along at any old speed you fancy...

[TallulahTwinkletoes]

I fully expect to get flamed for this because I know I'm a tad over the top about this but it's my pet hate so here goes.

If say be gentle but I know this is the wrong place for that

I drive a lot. Every day I drive on a road that's technically a country road as there are fields either side but it's more than wide enough and not too windy. This road is followed by two straight roads. These are all national speed limit roads.

This is comfortably attainable with a few corners on the country road where 50 is a better speed. Obviously various weathers call for different speeds. I was behind a double decker bus doing 50 down there today.

The last few days I have been stuck behind people doing 35-40. Today the lady flashed at me when I finally get chance to overtake.

They way I see it is if you are driving so slow on the roads either
A) you are unaware of the speed limit/unable to follow basic road signs and therefore shouldn't be driving
B) do not feel comfortable driving at an appropriate limit for the road and therefore shouldn't be driving.

I know it's a limit not a target but you fail your driving test if you 'fail to progress' so they shouldn't be driving like this.

It's the principle that they don't care about anyone's time frame or how they affect other people. They just trundle along deciding what speed they want to go at and not giving a fuck.

We all have bad days where we mess up roundabouts and misjudge but Jesus Christ, if you can't drive at 60 in a straight line...

the thread isn't about bikes (fearing Thread Captain ) so I'll swerve out of it now. But for lastly asking drivers to read the OP in This Thread about the further problems of riding and driving in the dark winter months.

I can see the point of view of those who get annoyed by slow drivers - and I have to admit, I do it myself when driving on country roads. (DH is terrible).

BUT - it only takes a minute to rethink this with a bit of empathy.

Lots of older people lose their confidence when it comes to driving. Some of them live in out-of-the-way places. Keeping them on the road is the one thing that preserves their independence and their happiness. To ban them from driving would be to condemn them to move in with family, or into a care facility of some type - which isn't necessarily good for them or their families. It can even mean separating couples who have been together for decades.

Of course, if they are unsafe they must stop driving - I can't emphasize this enough. But many are not unsafe - they are just aware that their reactions and eyesight are perhaps not what they once were, and they are more anxious. They are reasonably safe drivers, provided that others treat them with a bit of care and respect. Does zooming to your destination 10 minutes faster really warrant the consequences to their lives of banning them from the road? Have you never had to get behind a wheel when you felt a bit coldy and a bit less confident than usual? Have a heart.

I often see/hear this argument about how elderly people can lose their independence if they are prevented from driving.

Fil had to be assessed by his GP as to whether he was fit to drive following a hip replacement. His sons had suggested that he hang up his driving gloves, and even the matron of the home where he was visiting mil mentioned to us that he was dangerous (I think he pranged something in their car park...).

The GP said, it was up to his conscience whether he continued to drive. Fil clearly didn't have much of a one as he reported this incredulously and said of course he was going to carry on driving. If this is the extent of a GP's assessment then it is a fairly pointless requirement.

A work colleague's great aunt killed someone in a car park by driving into her. The colleague said that the aunt was adamant that it was the car that had killed the person, not her, and was furious that she had been banned from driving.

Anyone who is not in control of their vehicle is a terrible danger.

But a disabled person who has learnt to drive or relearnt with their limitations is not really in the same category as an elderly person who refuses to acknowledge that they are not the same driver as they were when they were 25.

My DH told me last night that his colleagues mother , has finally had her licence removed, much to the relief of the rest of the family. She is 79.

She has been cautioned previously for dangerous driving ( she failed to stop at a pedestrian crossing and hit a small child) driving under the influence, and this time driving over the limit ( three times the amount of alcohol in her blood when stopped and breatalised.

DH's colleague has refused to get in to a car with her for five years. He and the rest of the family have told her countless times she is not safe to drive, but she has insisted on maintaining her 'independence' As far as I am concerned this women is selfish and incredibly entitled and It's scary that someone like her has been on the road when she clearly had no business being behind the wheel of a car.

Her family are hugely relieved that she is no longer driving.

zooming to your destination 10 minutes faster

You mean, catching a commuter train to work at the start of a very long day.
Getting to a doctor's appointment that has taken weeks to book.
Meeting children off a bus when it is dark and we do not have streetlights.

Amen Abra Happened to me recently, but it was the dentist I was late for, crawling along behind some numpty doing 30 on a nsl road.

That's all right and mighty fine, Tiggytape, but why are there people out there doing 30? How early do you have to leave, in all reasonableness to get to your appointment at the pace of someone in front doing 30mph? You finally get out around whoever it is and turn a bend and there is a cyclist swerving to avoid a pothole. The time involved can be very unpredictable. I brought DS to a destination recently that should have been a 5.5 hour- maximum 6 hour round trip. It took 4.5 hours to get there and 2.5 to get back.

If someone is so nervous that they have to drive at 30 mph, or so hampered by stiffness or another physical condition that they are not going to go anywhere near the speed allowed (road and weather conditions being equal) why are they on the road?

I was in a DMV in the US when I saw an older lady being told that she couldn't have her licence renewed, having failed her vision test. Her son who had accompanied her seemed really relieved.

exMIL had to be forced to stop driving after several crashes into parked cars.

Celticlass, I read breathalised as brutalised and wondered where on earth all of this had happened.

This is why I get so frustrated on this road. Though you'd all be proud of how calm I stayed. Kind of.

Morning journey yesterday... Behind a Mercedes vito ppl carrier van thing. 35 the whole way.

Evening journey... Mazda 6. 30 on the corners 35 on the straights. Slammed their brakes on every corner, everytime a car came the opposite way. Managed forty on the last straight bit. When it changed to forty, slammed his brakes on. Then 20-25 I'm the 30 constantly slamming on brakes with any change in visuals. Dick.

How close were you to the Mazda? Sounds like he was trying to get you to back off a bit. (wrongly in my view - I never do that, as it's dangerous. If someone is buzzing around in my rear view, I pull over when it's safe and let them past).

Largely I think people could do with being a bit more patient on the roads and allowing more time for important journeys. I'm comfortable driving in all conditions, learnt to drive on twisty single track country roads and now live in a city, but I allow for the fact that not everyone likes driving as much as I do. Impatient driving costs lives.

That's what I thought at first, that maybe he thought I was closer than I actually was so I backed off quite a bit. Still kept doing it tho.

Was behind the same Mercedes van this morning. Took extra effort to overtake on the straight.

Celtic, I'm afraid I flashed the car in front of me that sat at 30mph for five miles on a NSL road in rush hour this morning in front of me and refused to move over.

I wouldn't drive at 60 on this particular road myself, but in rush hour it is unreasonable not to try and get above 30.

Celticlass I'm sure you'll agree that the person you mentioned is a dangerous drive regardless of age
She should be off the road anyway. I'm sure you aren't suggesting that being 79 is a reason in itself.

Yes, they have a right to use the road, but why not appreciate that other users of the road are capable of going faster or need to go faster, and pulling over to let them past? The slower drivers know that the speed limit is set with due regard for road conditions and if warranted, it would be lower and everyone should be going slower. But since the speed limit is higher, they really should assume people can go faster safely and might be counting on going faster, to get to their Point B.

Why would someone proceeding at 30 mph on a 60 mph road at rush hour think it was acceptable to poke along at 30 and not pull over when they can see cars lined up behind them, or even one car?

If you are not confident then practice, but not at rush hour, or take more lessons. If you are nervous, then get over it somehow - address whatever it is that makes you nervous. Nervous drivers and drivers lacking in confidence are a huge menace. Perhaps not in the same league as a drunk driver, but dangerous all the same.

I agree. On Saturday I was on a slip road going onto the motorway. The car in front of me was going quite slowly, too slowly in fact to join the motorway given that there was heavy traffic. The driver indicated to go on, obviously lost her nerve, and swerved back onto the slip road, which was rapidly running out. Then she indicated again, and again swerved back again. In the meantime I was behind, not being able to join either!

Usually I think it's terrible driving to join the motorway before the car in front has, but in the end I had no choice but to go for it and nip on, leaving an elderly driver (yes, she did look very elderly) stationary at the end of the slip road. She's probably still there!

Where I learned to drive you cannot stop at the end of an on ramp. You pick up speed and do whatever it takes to merge into the traffic, and traffic on the highway is supposed to give you an opening - slow down or change to the faster lane, etc. Yet one day I was behind a van heading down a ramp and the driver stopped dead right where she should have been getting to about 60mph and accelerating, with her indicator on, looking back over her shoulder to see oncoming traffic. I swerved around her, had no choice, and blew my horn. I hope she finally got out on the road and I hope she hasn't killed anyone since. If there had been a semi behind her she would have caused a terrible accident.

It's a speed limit not a target UABVU

If time was a concern for them, wouldn't they speed up a bit when they got to a straight bit of road where they could put their foot down and make up for lost time after pulling over?

A responsible driver doesn't force others to dice with danger trying to overtake. If you are going slowly and can't or won't speed up then you should pull over, which is the option that involves the least danger to everyone concerned.

The thing that annoys me the most is the 'I'll drive at the speed I like, thank you very much' attitude. Well no, you won't. You'll drive as is safe and legal to do so. As we all should. And if you're entitled to drive how you want, why the fuck am I not?

math oh, you're a driving instructor too, I see? So many jobs - traffic police, driving instructor, anything else?

I do know how to drive, thanks. I was passing a line of lorries which were driving very close together. Two of the cars which swerved out in front of me were stuck in that queue, so perhaps 'undertaking' isn't the right term.
Had I pulled in as you patronisingly suggest, I would have had to brake sharply, as I was passing the lorries at about 20mph faster than they were going. Also, I'd have had to force my way into the inside lane.

The car that 'properly' undertook pulled out of a slip road, swerved between two lorries in the slow lane, forcing one to blast his horn (and brake, I assume, I wasn't watching the whole scenario), then pulled out in front of me, and swerved back into the inside lane, before doing the same thing 100 yards further on.

I do pull in, all the time. I often do more than three quarters of a journey in the inside lane, and I often stop in lay-bys on single lane roads, if I'm lost, or struggling to see far enough ahead to do 60, if there's a queue of suicidal locals behind waiting to screech off towards their eventual demise behind the wheel pass.
But you know what? After reading this thread, and the frankly offensive way in which you racing car drivers think of and refer to those of us who don't want to drive at or above the speed limit, I'm not going to do that anymore. So you'll have one more person holding you up. Enjoy the extra time to think about what you achieved here today.