To think you can't just trundle along at any old speed you fancy...

[TallulahTwinkletoes]

I fully expect to get flamed for this because I know I'm a tad over the top about this but it's my pet hate so here goes.

If say be gentle but I know this is the wrong place for that

I drive a lot. Every day I drive on a road that's technically a country road as there are fields either side but it's more than wide enough and not too windy. This road is followed by two straight roads. These are all national speed limit roads.

This is comfortably attainable with a few corners on the country road where 50 is a better speed. Obviously various weathers call for different speeds. I was behind a double decker bus doing 50 down there today.

The last few days I have been stuck behind people doing 35-40. Today the lady flashed at me when I finally get chance to overtake.

They way I see it is if you are driving so slow on the roads either
A) you are unaware of the speed limit/unable to follow basic road signs and therefore shouldn't be driving
B) do not feel comfortable driving at an appropriate limit for the road and therefore shouldn't be driving.

I know it's a limit not a target but you fail your driving test if you 'fail to progress' so they shouldn't be driving like this.

It's the principle that they don't care about anyone's time frame or how they affect other people. They just trundle along deciding what speed they want to go at and not giving a fuck.

We all have bad days where we mess up roundabouts and misjudge but Jesus Christ, if you can't drive at 60 in a straight line...

Cyclists are entitled to be in the roads...but quite why anyone would want to cycle along a narrow A road with cars and lorries flying past them is beyond my comprehension. I have a friend from the Netherlands who, like her fellow countrymen and women, cycles everywhere back home. She can't get over the fact that people cycle along A roads here, especially given our (as she puts it) obsession with health and safety in every other walk of life - they just wouldn't in the Netherlands apparently.

I totally agree, I drive down a country road to work every day, it's a 60 mph road, in good conditions 60 mph is fine but I regularly get stuck behind people doing 30 mph it drives me mad!!!! If you're scared of speeds above 30 stay off the roads. I also hate the 40 mph club, who do 40 mph in a 60 and you're stuck behind them, then you go into a 30 zone so you slow down and they dissappear into the distance still doing 40!!!

Cyclists have no business being on roads where the speed limit is above 30 mph, on roads where there is no bike lane, and/or roads where lorries or buses may be whipping past them driving inside the speed limit.

Are you being utterly serious, math? For 'whipping past' try considering 'over-taking them safely', like they would for any other road user...

I don't think some people understand speed limits. Speed limits less than NSL are used primarily in built up or congested areas .On a country road the speed limit is usually 60 but there may be some places where 40 is teh max safe speed , some places where 50 is the max and other places where it is safe to do 60, all within a mile. Drivers are supposed to use their experience and judgment

When you (any of you who've said it) say 'well, you shouldn't drive/should take a refresher/take more lessons' to people who prefer to drive more gently, do you actually stop and think what that means?
The cost of taking lessons past the point where you are simply certified as a legal driver, to the point where you can confidently drive at or near the speed limit in good conditions on all roads would be ASTRONOMICAL. Learning to drive cost me nearly three THOUSAND pounds, because I found it difficult, and I did PassPlus, to up my confidence. I did a lot of lessons, so that I could become a good, safe driver.

The reason I found it hard? Being constantly, and endlessly flashed, zoomed past, tailgated and generally made to hurry when I didn't feel confident doing so. The worst was a 4x4 which overtook me on the wrong side of the road, at a junction, through red traffic lights, because I'd done 25-28 mph in a 30 zone. He drove around eight inches from my back bumper the whole time. To the point where my instructor was gesturing through the back windshield to try and get him to fuck off.

You learn to really drive after you pass your test. And in that time, it takes practice to get the stage of being confident in all situations. That means practice on the roads. You know, in cars, some of which might get in your way once in a while.
Presumably you also resent small children learning to walk who get in your way when you're barrelling down the pavement?

Just because you're so perfect, doesn't mean everyone else is. I've now been driving eighteen months, and am much, much better. But if my daughter is howling in the back, or I'm tired, or the road is scaring me, I will drive slower. Tough luck. I won't risk my life, or hers, or others', because you are so bloody important that I have to drive faster to accommodate you.

A lorry or bus going over 30 is going to displace a lot of air and cause a cyclist to wobble, and the faster the vehicle is going the more of a 'whipping past' effect there will be.

A driver might be stuck behind a cyclist and forced to proceed at a snail's pace for quite a while before getting a chance to overtake with a safe enough space. Faced with a situation like that, many drivers will squeeze past, or will take a chance and overtake at high speed to avoid oncoming traffic.

You should not drive slower for those reasons you gave, Humpty (tiredness, baby crying, road scaring you). If you are driving slower than road conditions warrant and you are clearly going slower than the rest of the traffic then you should try to find a spot to pull over. You really should drive a bit faster if you notice everyone behind you coming up and overtaking when they get a chance.

Unless the country invests in cycle lanes cyclists have no choice except to use the roads- they need to get from A to B as much as everyone else. They are not all cycling for fun, they are going to work etc.

HumpyDumpty that is an excellent post. I am currently having driving lessons. It is made infinitely more stressful by the tailgaters, dangerous overtakers and beeping wankers. And I'm not even that slow!
When I pass my test no way will I be flying round unfamiliar country roads at 60mph.
There might be a cyclist, walker, cow, sheep, stag or tractor. There might be a really tricky bend. I will certainly not be caning it in case some speeding twat crashes into the back of me. That would be entirely their fault.
I would also be more than happy to pull over to let someone past. They can go and have their accident somewhere away from me.

You seem determined to make excuses for dangerous driving. Good luck with that

No, I am telling the dangerous people - those that tailgate, flash other people, and generally drive with aggression - that they need to calm the fuck down. If there are so many people driving at a slower pace then the problem is more likely to be them, not the people in front of them. And that if this is an ongoing problem, build it into their driving plans, and leave earlier or go a different route. It's not rocket science!

Driving is not about getting from A to B in the fastest possible time

Not for you maybe.

You forgot to quote the bit where I said it was to get there safely.

Honestly, a bit of self reflection by these gang ho drivers would do you the world of good. It is not your road exclusively, and it is your responsibility to make sure you are taking other road users into consideration.

At least we are clear that the reason for all this aggressive driving is the lack of planning and forethought, added to a barrel load of selfishness and ignorance of these drivers.

At least we are clear that the reason for all this aggressive driving is the lack of planning and forethought, added to a barrel load of selfishness and ignorance of these drivers

I don't agree with that at all. I intentionally missed the quote about safely. For me it's about getting from A to B as quickly as possible. Hell, sometimes I have no need to get to B at all I just go there for the blat.

Says it all really.

I hope you get all the blat you need dirk.

'Cyclists have no business being on roads where the speed limit is above 30 mph, on roads where there is no bike lane, and/or roads where lorries or buses may be whipping past them driving inside the speed limit.'

wtf??? such arrogance!!

For me it's about getting from A to B as quickly as possible. Hell, sometimes I have no need to get to B at all

That's good, because with your driving attitude, one of these days you won't get to B at all

math - you're attitude to cyclists is a concern. This 'air-displacement'/snail's pace arguments are just nonsense - drivers should not be overtaking anything/one unless it is safe to do so. What you want to be doing is to introduce the madnesses of motorways onto local roads.

Bike safety - I ride about 1hr 45 mins per day, to and from work on all sorts of roads - the long A-roads aren't the worry - it's the junctions and drivers inability to use them properly. Cyclists die at junctions.

If I may re-phrase your bonkers statement: "People who drive without due care for the safety of others and are too inept to overtake other road users safely have no business being on roads at all." There.

I have a friend from the Netherlands who, like her fellow countrymen and women, cycles everywhere back home. She can't get over the fact that people cycle along A roads here, especially given our (as she puts it) obsession with health and safety in every other walk of life - they just wouldn't in the Netherlands apparently.

But how do you avoid it if the only road to your destination is an A road, you don't have a car and there are no buses? OK, you can get a taxi occasionally, but it's not practical if, say. it's a journey to work.

Quite. My journey to work involves an A road with a speed limit above 30mph. I also have a car, but driving as a commuter is just insane IF you can avoid it (as most people can - they are just too lazy to get a bus/train, walk or bike - I know this from talking to people.)

I'd invite math to review her original statement.

I'm not too lazy to cycle. I'm too scared

Ici - then you have to cycle and accept the conditions of the road.

'Most' people that I know can't avoid driving to work. 'Most' people that I know would love to avoid driving, but can't because of terrible public transport links which are either non-existent, or involve 2 hours each way of unjoined routes and the expense that entails as opposed to 30 minutes in the car, and childcare that closes before the public transport commute would end. It's definitely not a case of being too lazy - although I imagine that if you live in an area which is well served by public transport it's easy to be simplistic.

Anyway, back to the OP. If you can't drive to the speed limit (assuming good conditions) then you need to pull over and let other drivers past, or get further lessons to build your confidence/look for alternative roads if you don't wish to pull over.

My OH used to cycle 10 miles home and when he was late I'd be extremely worried about him being hit. And I never worry about people - ever!

Cyclists on Britain's roads are all very very brave. There are alot of scarey drivers out there.

math I drove yesterday. On the A13, and the M25. In four miles, I was undertaken three times, as I sat in the middle lane filtering past some slowish lorries, doing a steady 70. I was a reasonable distance from the car in front of me - I always am, I'm rabid about stopping distances.

Despite the fact there was an outer lane, which was no busier than the middle lane, presumably I should have sped up, because the message the undertaking wankers in BMWs, and an Audi drivers were giving was that 70mph was insufficient?

And how about on the A414 towards the end of my journey? It's a wide single carriageway road. I was doing 59mph according to my satnav. I was overtaken several times by people doing well over 70mph. Should I have matched their speed, or exceeded it?

There are a LOT of dangerous and overconfident drivers on the road. There are far too many people who speed. Until I know for certain that I can react to a situation in such a way as to save myself and my daughter from one of those dickheads losing control, I reserve the right to drive in a way that means I know I can stop, and I know I can get us both out of a dangerous situation. If that costs you thirty seconds, so be it.

Should have added (as I posted earlier) - if you can't drive to the speed limit and adjust your speed upwards/downwards as appropriate

I'd think the major population centres are served by public transport etc. Again, actually talking to people indicates the majority drive because of a basic laziness - picking kids up or other stuff excepted - people who go from A to B and back again. It's the driver-entitlement mentality that over rides sense too.

Cycling is not dangerous. This is a myth that keeps people in cars. Some assertiveness and confidence is required, yes, but those things develop along with your road craft.