Aibu too not understand the reaction of the Ferguson Michael Brown in the USA

[Natashathemum]

My Dh thinks that it is a disgusting example of racial inequality in America. But i think having read a lot of articles/news that the police officer was only protecting himself. Although it is unfortunate that someone so young died.

However Dh feels strongly it is disgusting racism. He called me blind and crazy (lighthearted). Aibu for thinking this.

111 Police killed last year on duty not a terribly high number?? Wow, how many people died as a result of their duties in your profession last year? Sounds pretty horrendous to me. It's a serious risk they take, and people are quick to jump on incidents like this but very slow to thank officers for the numerous good things they do each day to keep people safer.
I am not trying to minimise UncleT, merely pointing out that the figures are not as high as some seem to feel that they are.

As for the other comment about the jury, I don't think we can judge until we know the make-up of said jury, although it is interesting perhaps to note how many (all white, or mainly white) juries convict young black men and how many of those judgements are overturned on appeal years later with a slightly more balanced jury.

No, again - completely untrue that unarmed white people aren't shot (no good reason? That's your speculation - officer says he was being attacked, firearm being reached for and the other guy was massively bigger and could well have killed him).

I don't automatically trust the police. I don't think there was any real doubt that ours executed an innocent guy in an underground station.

In this particular case I don't know the motives of the officer, but to say he was "shot by police for waving about a toy gun!" is daft.

"Hey, Fred I really hate toy guns. Think I'll shoot that kid for having one"?

If it looked like a real one then it's reasonable to suppose he was shot for pointing a gun' at someone.

If I find someone in my bedroom waving a gun I won't say "can I see the receipt for the gun so I know if it's real"

As for 'shoot them in the legs' that's up there with 'shooting the gun out of his hand' which I've also heard in the past.

Nicnacky - well, it IS really, isn't it?
I don't mean that in a trite way at ALL btw.
If you don't want even the chance of being shot in your line of work you don't join the Military, you don't join the Police, you don't become a bodyguard to someone important etc etc - you become an accountant or a shop assistant or something.

I agree entirely with you UncleT that we do not have the evidence a Grand Jury had so this is all speculation and opinion (mine included!).

I agree even more with BoomBoomsCousin that:

"The problem in the USA (and in some communities here) isn't that individual officers may be racist. It's that the way policing is set up and run isn't a matter of mutual consent with officers drawn from the community they police, they are an army in the midst."

It is the reason that, although a number of my family were in the MET, I decided NOT to join the Police force. Rightly or wrongly my personal decision was not to be in 'an army in the midst' who get shot at.

The problem of racism is not unique to the US police force.
I once worked as a doctor on a neurocritical care unit, dealing with patients with severe brain injury.
We once dealt with a black patient who has been detained in custody at the local police station, interestingly in the only room the CCTV was broken, and then came in to us with severe brain injuries and bruises all over his body.
I was a junior doctor so a bit naive at the time. Anyhow the unit got a call from a very senior police officer and I picked up the phone. He asked me to do a written statement to say this man's injuries were consistent with a grand mal seizure. I told my consultant who said if they call again to "no comment" them and it was outside of hospital staff's job description to determine whether this was a fit, or foul play.
I still do not know to this day whether the guy had a fit or had been beaten up, however I have never seen such extensive injuries in any other people who have had a grand mal.

The grand jury of Missouri has 9 white members, 3 black members.

Even if the jury was all white, they still know a hell of a lot more about what happened than we do. In actual fact though, three of twelve were black - this information is widely available.

There was a firearm being waved around, the officer wasn't to know that it was a fake one. I don't think that this comes down to the colour of the offenders skin and we will never know if the police officer was racist as we can't read his mind.

Seasons are you sure about the firearm waving around bit?
I have read tons of conflicting reports as to what happened.
If I lived in the states and someone waved a gun at me I would shoot them without hesitation, irrespective of their race.

mindreader of course there is always that possibility but you do sound quite flippant about it. If I got killed I don't think my family would say "oh well she knew the risks". If everyone thought like that then we wouldn't have a police service.

Absolutely no occupation is safe 100%

ralt there is footage released of him pointing it.

well the police officer was right to shoot him then.

To be fair, that footage is prior to police arrival as it obviously didn't show the shooting of the boy.

There is racism amongst police in America. I know this because my wife is black and lived there for 9 years. She was regularly tailed and stoppped by police when driving a smart car, not for speeding, not for any other violations, just because she was a black woman driving a smart car. None of her white colleagues had that experience.

However, these young men were not innocent victims. Michaeal Brown was a violent criminal that had just robbed a shop and (according to witnesses and forensice evidence) was about to attack a police officer. I'm sorry but I have no sympathy with people who behave like that.

The young lad is a different situation but even so 12 is old enough to know that if you are waving a replica gun about and scaring people and then the police show up you put it down or you shout, "it's not a real gun". It's absolutely tragic that he has died of course but had the gun been real (and of course some young people do get hold of fire arms in America) and others had been killed the police would have been hauled over the coals for not reacting.

There is a deeper problem I know but my wife gets sick of people using cases like this to prove a point.

I see some of you have bought into the Michael Brown was a big scary/thug/monster/nigger nonsense (as usual)

the officer is six foot one and 16 stone.

MB was six foot four and 20 stone
a difference but not a huge one, especially as the officer would have been trained in 'bringing down' criminals with his night stick, unarmed combat and he was in his car (a two ton weapon)

the officer said that he felt like a five year old confronting hulk Hogan. he is a racist liar who has been backed up by the state as usual.

but hey, don't let the facts get in the way of your effortless racism.

I think people are getting confused between two shootings?

Creighton, how would you behave if you were the police officer in this situation?

NO, NIcknacky, with family in the Met I can assure you I am NOT flippant about it at ALL.
You don't know me, granted, but I do know this for sure.

It was a personal choice / weighing up of risks and benefits of mine.
Obviously others feel different which is why there IS a Police Force.

Clearly occupations which do not require you to potentially come into contact with armed and dangerous criminals on a daily basis are more safe than those that do

You cannot "bring down" a suspect with a night stick! I have officer safety training every year and the last piece of equipment I would reach for is my baton.

Unarmed combat?? Tell me how you would over power a 20 stone man without injury who is coming towards you?

Easy to say but bloody difficult to do!

Your last statement is absolutely ridiculous. As if the police officer had time to calclulate that the man coming towards him to attack him was only 3 inches taller and a mere 4 stone!

Yes two different stories. I was responding to the general point about the toy gun which will be the Cleveland one I suppose

He had four stone and three inches on him?? Sure, the officer is no puny specimen, but that's actually a very significant difference you've described there, and training aside a criminal is often the more motivated party in the struggle for a range of reasons. Throwing the 'n' word in there is bizarre, does nothing to enhance your point at all and only serves to make you sound hysterical when applying it in response to those who have calmly stated a contrary view.

I wonder what would happen in the UK if someone who looked old enough to know better was waving a gun around in a public place and on seeing a police car approach was still waving it around with the public standing close enough to be potentially shot.

What do you think our police should do in that situation not knowing if it was real or not but having err on the side of caution and to presume it was.

The UN has had to tell the US to sort itself out wrt racial profiling and a friend of mine living out there tells me of a grim joke about young men being stopped and searched for 'driving while black'.

In the late 80's I knew a black Londoner whose brother was stopped while driving a new sports car. The police asked him where someone "like him" had got a car like that. (Bought with his salary from an IT job that paid three times as much as being a policeman.)