Aibu too not understand the reaction of the Ferguson Michael Brown in the USA

[Natashathemum]

My Dh thinks that it is a disgusting example of racial inequality in America. But i think having read a lot of articles/news that the police officer was only protecting himself. Although it is unfortunate that someone so young died.

However Dh feels strongly it is disgusting racism. He called me blind and crazy (lighthearted). Aibu for thinking this.

People justifying a 12 year old child being shot dead in a park while playing with a toy gun.

Some of you really need to take a look at yourselves FFS.

Nicknacky I never even mentioned the word police in my post, so why you've taken offence I have no idea? I'm white and managed to not take it personally when creighton said "whites like you". So why just because you're a police officer do you take offence when people are talking about 1 police officer being a racist in particular? I was under the impression that police officers like every other human on the planet are not of one mind? Therefore it is highly likely to get police officers with differing opinions, yes? Or are you seriously saying that some police officers can't be racist? This thread isn't about you Nickynacky it's about racism and teenager being shot by police. Unless you were actually the one who shot him I really can't understand how you can take it personally?

Just slightly quicker on the trigger, just slightly more shoots fired, just slightly more likely to mistake the age of a suspect, just slightly more likely to think a black kid has a gun than a white kid. It isn't as easy as saying that this Police Officer isn't a racist or is. It is impossible to be raised in a white-dominated, Western, Christian democracy as a white person without having some vestige of racism, privilege, power, fear and all the other taints that history has left us.

I fully agree with this. But there's a big difference between this and the supposition that a police officer kills a black youth because he hates black people/couldn't give a shit about them. Which is how some people seem to be picturing it.

One should result in a murder charge and I don't believe the other should. Instead something needs to be done to try and tackle this, sadly I have no idea what. Better training for police and more black officers for a start. But its society as a whole which needs to be better integrated as that's where these problems and perceptions start.

If you work for the Met then you work for an organisation that has been found to be institutionally racist, nicknack.

Further they have found, as an organisation, frequently, to be corrupt, inept, involved in cover-ups, etc etc and so on.

As a person who works in an organisation with huge problems, you can either say, this is terrible, I want to work to change it from the inside, and find ways to do that. Or you can say wah not me, not my problem, not interested and become defensive and dismissive when challenges about the organisation are made.

And if it is a fact that while UK police officers, at an individual level and an organisational level, have been found to be racist, I find it hard to believe that the US, a society which admits itself that it has huge problems with this issue, has police officers and police forces who never ever have a racist thought and never ever make a racist action ever.

Yeah right.

Defending the murder of a child who was playing with a toy FFS all because people don't want to admit that their cherished institutions are rotten in parts.

When mnhq contacted me about my posts I had to point out that they did not delete offensive posts when written about black people they just responded to my responses . They don't need to tell white people to stick up for themselves as mnhq will do it themselves

Institutional racism (and classism) throughout all of the establishment has been proved by a lot of research-schools, the judiciary, the government, the army and yes the police, it doesn't mean that all soldiers, judges and coppers are racist. It means that we, all of us, need to admit and confront this issue and work it out so that everyone is given as fair as is possible break in life. Minimising and denying this only serves to prolong the problems and misery that affect us all. I don't automatically assume people are racist, I listen to what they say and more importantly look at their actions if I want to make a judgement. How hurtful it is to anyone who has first hand experience of unequal treatment because of their race to see posters here queuing up to deny their truth, I'm not surprised they're rioting in Ferguson US society has left them with nothing else to do. when the state is oppressing you, where do you turn to?

creighton.....I am trying to understand your argument here. Can you tell me if there are any circumstances when a white policeman shoots dead a black man that you wouldn't consider an act of racism? Do you think it is ever possible that a white policeman might just be shooting a 'dangerous criminal' rather than a black man?

I didn't know the ins and outs of the Ferguson case until today, but someone posted this on Facebook, and it is a very, very useful account of what happened, from both sides:

www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/national/ferguson-grand-jury-findings/

It seems clear that a lot of posters don't know that, whatever happened (and Michael Brown was certainly behaving aggressively towards the policeman, as was the policeman towards him (and very unprofessionally, and seemingly handling things v. badly)), Michael Brown then walked away and the cop got out of his car and chased after him with his gun.

I mean...why would you do that, professionally speaking? Surely, if you were worried that a suspect was violent, or a threat, you would radio for backup- not go chasing after him on your own? And if you weren't worried that he was a threat to your life, why the fuck would you shoot him?

How does everyone know the shop footage was edited to make it look different? Did this come out at the trial or something? Did the shopkeeper not say that MB paid for some stuff and then robbed other stuff. How do they show him actually physically grabbing and intimidating the shopkeeper if he didn't do it? I'm just curious on that point.

JustGemma in organisations which have been shown to have certain failings, to give the benefit of the doubt every time another incident happens is at best naive and at worst deliberately disingenuous.

In a country where there are huge tensions between various communities and the police, where the police have acted against rather than for them in the past, in so many ways, of course every time a white person (police officer or otherwise) kills a black person who was not armed, there is going to be a massive outcry. Because these are not isolated incidents, and you can't view them that way. This black community is angry because all they see are their people being harassed, pursued and mistreated by the police, and sometimes beaten and killed. They don't trust them, for good reason. Exactly the same as in similar situations in the UK.

Dissatisfaction is there and then something like this happens, and it acts as a catalyst for all that anger to be expressed. I don't understand why so many people can't understand that.

Creighton you said on this thread MNHQ had messaged you telling you not to upset "white people" which isn't true. sigh

You beat me to it, Pangurban - I was just about to ask that myself. I believe a PP mentioned something about the CCTV being altered/doctored or something - please can anyone tell me if this has actually been proved?

Stubbornstains I confess I'm always a bit dubious about possible "angles" in press reports, but I'm confused by your suggestion that Wilson should have radioed for back-up ... didn't the article say that he did exactly that??

Oh and Creigton - are you seriously now suggesting that MNHQ are biased too??? Only from your remarks that "they did not delete offensive posts when written about black people" and "They don't need to tell white people to stick up for themselves as mnhq will do it themselves" it's hard to see what else you could have meant ...

It looks as if he did grab the shopkeeper, "everyone" is not saying the footage was edited, some people on twitter are saying it. Just because he may/may not have shoplifted and then became aggressive when the shopkeeper tried to lock him into the shop does not mean he was a dangerous shoot first and ask questions later type of criminal. I hope this sates your curiosity.
Innocent until proven guilty, trial by jury of ones peers, these are among the pillars of democracy, justice is supposed to be blind.
If shoplifting and intimidation deserved summary execution then half the teenage boys whose Mums are here would be dead. MB was still a teenager, shot like a rabid dog in the street. So sad, what a waste.

There is more than one police force in Britain than the Met, you know. Policing doesn't begin and end with the Met.

Nope, don't work for them.

Oh yes puzzled, I think he did- but he should have waited for that back up to arrive, surely?

But did you read that link, puzzled? What's so good about it is that it presents the 2 main (opposing) witness statements side by side, as the incident unfolds....so it's probably as impartial as you're going to get....

nicknacky I think you are deliberately missing my point there.

The point is that many institutions have problems with them. People working for those institutions can ignore the problems or they can help to root out trouble.

I used the Met as an example as they have a terrible track record but I would be amazed if there is a single police force in the UK that does not have problems with individual officers and/or entrenched at an organisational level. Report after report flags up problems in forces across the UK, there's stuff in the news most weeks.

So to deny that there are any problems, and that by extension there aren't any problems in the US either (huh?) makes no sense and seems closed minded and short-sighted but actually a quick search shows that you have defended the shooting dead of a 12 year old so,well.

Good to know we are in safe hands

MEOD I think the Met have more opportunities to be racist than other forces. Is the answer to that.

he should have waited for that back up to arrive, surely?

Yes, in principle I agree - though of course we can't know how fast someone else could have got there, whether it all kicked off before they'd have had chance and so on. Maybe the grand jury had more info on that - I don't know - but that's partly what I meant about treating media reports with caution

why can't you believe that mnhq is biased. can't middle class 'educated' women be biased?

Even when shooting criminals the police are biased, they killed mark duggan because they claimed that he was on the way to shoot someone. when Raoul moat killed a man and then shot a police officer in the face blinding him, the police let the white criminal hold them at bay in a field for a few hours and then choose to end his own life. is there any circumstance in which the police is unbiased?

Well quite.
And don't forget corrupt.

It'm just wondering people are saying undisputed stuff never happened

graphics8.nytimes.com/newsgraphics/2014/11/24/ferguson-assets/grand-jury-testimony.pdf

Look for transcript of the Grand Jury.

It's way down, but Dorian Johnson testified that he didn't see Michael Brown pay for anything and that he robbed the cigarillos. He testified that MB then grabbed and shoved the shopkeeper when he tried to get his stuff back. He said he was looking at MB afterwards, because he hadn't struck him (in their short acquaintance) as somebody who would do stuff like that. Dorian Johnson says he wasn't cool about it because he knew they were on camera.

It seems Johnson wasn't charged with anything in relation to this as he didn't do the robbery or physical stuff.