To think many mumsnetters have little or no understanding of life on a low income

[crocodilesarevicious]

It's going to be hard to know how to phrase this as I don't want to cause offence.

I've been hanging around for a while. One thing I've noticed is that benefit threads become angry very quickly because so many are quite loud and fixed in their view that the UK is full of starving children reliant on value baked beans from food banks to fill their hungry tummies.

However, if someone who is on benefits or a low income is searching specific advice! they are often given quite short shrift. I've noticed this a few times - they are told, often brusquely, to retrain as something at university - usually a teacher or a nurse. These are graduate professions yet they are chucked out as something anyone can do. Not everyone can go to college or university due to financial restraints but also, some people don't have the academic ability. This is dismissed and shrugged off - if people aren't on much money then they need to find a way to make more money, even if this isn't possible.

Childminding, or starting a business is also suggested. People who rent may not be able to do this. Again, this takes a certain amount of financial and business savvy not to mention starting up costs.

Cooking is another area people seem to have little understanding of. It's so easy to cook healthy, cheap nutritious meals if your kitchen is large and a pleasure to cook in and you can whiz in the car to sainsburys or Tesco. If you have a small, grubby, dark kitchen and the local Spar or premier shop it's a bit different.

I suppose what I'm getting at is that when talking about people in general terms, Mumsnet likes to be left wing and PC. Yet when it's someone specific, irrelevant and often patronising advice is given to them and then they are flamed when they can't act on it.

My own position, while I'm a graduate and employed in a professional capacity, is perhaps between the two. I've never been reliant in benefits but was homeless for a time in my 20s and am able to see how things that look simple often aren't.

I don't shop online on my budget because tesco and asda etc are so much dearer than aldi/market.

But I have the luxury of a car where I can drive to aldi and do my shop for the week in one go.

I get paid tomorrow. I have €5 to my name. Every month is the same. Too much month at the end of the money. Now sitting here with pjs, hoody top, thick socks and a blanket round me. Can't afford to buy calor gas till tomorrow. We just go to bed early, it's warmer.

Salted caramel.

Really good article. And illustrates really well why the rise of zero hour contracts is abhorrent, and that the National minimum wage should be the Living wage, and also why it is so important to keep building social rented housing and keep the NHS free at the point of use.

YANBU. I do believe that one person's opinion of cheap, nutritious & delicious, differs vastly from the next. I happen to love lentil bolognaise, just had it for dinner.

I have been near the bottom of the pile, financially, while on mat leave, and am still paying off the debts. Someone on here seemed shocked a few weeks ago that I manage to support my family on only 3 days per week wage, but it's doable.

I remember seeing a thread a while ago, someone was worried about SS coming to their house & wasn't sure what the issue was, possibly cleanliness. There were so many judgemental comments on there, saying how the cleaning shouldn't take that long, the place was obviously dirtier than she thought, etc. One of the responses was that it didn't take long to have "a quick sweep round & bung everything in the dishwasher etc". Because of course everyone has a dishwasher... or indeed a washing machine.

I'll tell you why people on a limited income don't shop online- the only places to offer online shopping are more expensive Sainsbos, Tesco etc. If you are really trying to eke out a small amount, much better go into Lidl or Aldi on the bus and carry it home/get a taxi. They don't deliver.

Very inefficient to shop at the more expensive places online, that's why I don't do it as my budget doesn't allow it, even with the cheaper delivery slots and the basics ranges (still comes in £20-40 a week more for Sainsbos than Lidl). Plus the basics ranges are cheap as they are small sized- so if you go to Lidl the food lasts longer.

A lot of poorer people shop in expensive shops anyway as that's what is around them if they haven't got a car (e.g. nearby Tesco Metro or corner shop with prices bumped up).

But if you have a car, the cheap supermarkets are by far the most cost-efficient, even if you take into account petrol costs.

thebodynowchillingsothere:

Police said if parents were still in UK they would have been prosecuted for abuse of a vulnerable adult (there are laws out there, normally used when old people with dementia get conned out of cash). However they said it would be impossible to do anything as they were in South of France. French police were not interested as the crime occurred in the UK.

Police advised me to see a solicitor so I saved up to see one and he said I could easily get a judgement in civil law but it would be more or less impossible to enforce in a foreign country. Plus parents were then claiming that they had spent all of my cash and the cash from the sale of their UK house (probably about half a mill they allegedly spent in a year with nothing to show for it) and were now straw men, so there was no point suing them. The money must be somewhere but I have no idea where and mum has since died. Solicitor and my uncle who is a retired accountant both advised that I dropped it and moved on.

I was really pissed off at the time but have since forgiven them. It has taught me a salutary lesson though to never ever trust anyone where money is concerned.

Most supermarkets run offers for free delivery.

Anyone, apart from fraud convictions, can open a basic bank account.www.moneysavingexpert.com/banking/basic-bank-accounts

What really pisses me off about people on benefits/low income is they are often taken advantage of by the likes of BrightHouse and Wonga/Amigo loans.
My BIL has learning difficulties which impact on his ability to make budgeting decisions. He bought a smart TV from Brighthouse which can be bought elsewhere for £700 and when he repays the "optional" service cover and the monthly instalments he will be £2600 down. It is criminal they money they take off people.

and when universal credit rolls out there will be more desperate people turning to the legal loan sharks.

Zero hours contracts are awful. A friend of mine going back to work for the first time in 20 years after serious mental health issues is on a zero hours contract with a care agency. He is getting two days a week from them. Since Spetwmber he has earned less that £700 and yet his HB claim was suspended as soon as nis Income Support stopped. To date they are still trying to sort out his reapplication and he is getting letters threatening repossession orders. If the Govt are trying to send him back to square one mental health wise, then they are doing a bloody good job! Thankfully he is now so well that he is coping with the crap life is throwing at him.

He is paying as many bills as he can and existing on food hand outs from friends and neighbours until this is sorted.

I do get irritated by the MNers (and other people in society) who make comments when they have no idea about the reality. But I am also heartened by the support I have seen here from people. When a MNer's husband had a heart transplant several years ago, lots of people donated to make sure she and her family had a chance to recover without the worry of lots of things. It paid for a lovely holiday when her husband had recovered enough to be part of it too.

So despite the annoyung comments I also know there are lots of people here who have very generous and supportive natures.

Ralth that's bloody awful. In awe you could forgive them. Hope you are ok now.

LOL at Pimms. At Asda you have to spend £25 minimum & the cheapest delivery charge is £1. At Tesco they only pick from your local store - no good if your local is small, like ours. (No idea re delivery charge as we don't use them for the above reason). Morrisons minimum order £40. Ocado/Waitrose cost a fortune, Sainsburys not much better. Aldi & Lidl don't deliver & are often way out of town, meaning a bus trip back with the shopping if you don't have a car. How exactly is it easy to budget, if you're on a very low budget for food? Especially given that some of the online shops don't always have everything you need in stock & you can't buy any of the last minute reductions.

Yes I had a basic bank account. You couldn't shop online with it, this was about 10 years ago. They also absolutely crucified you of you went overdrawn etc

Also it's hard to take advantage of free delivery if you work as the times do not correlate.

My mum used to go to the market for fruit and veg but these days it's all artisan loaves and vintage crafty twiggy shit.

Agree ralth about Brighthouse etc. Especially since DWP grants and other help has been abolished so if an appliance breaks many now have no choice but to turn to these places with extortionate interest rates.

And Lego I am trying to be helpful.

Yes, I know asda it's 25 quid minimum, so I plan the food for the month and a pound delivery is much cheaper than the bus return journey. My local spar is bloody expensive.

Agree with faith about bright house. And shitty landlords who won't repair broken appliances

And the cheapest slot is always 10-11 pm, but at least someone is in as the kids are asleep

Now that's enough on online shopping.

Responding to the OP:

I think you are right but I would expand it to people in general rather than just MN. I haven't ever been in poverty, I think my parents have had pretty harsh times (redundancy etc) but I couldn't say I've ever been in some of the situations posted here.

But that said, while my current situation is very different to all of my friends I still am able to comprehend just how little some people have. I do believe there is always a path to improve your life but with so many people from varying backgrounds it's bound to end up as you've described.

I would hope that those posting would also be able to realise this and thus pick through the replies that might work for them. I'm not sure what alternative there is?

If I could get everyone to read one book, it would be The heart of the Country by Faye Weldon. Fantstic for thinking about the issues and causes and problems of poverty. (and a cracking good read). Here's an extract that explains a lot about what people fail to understand about being poor...hence the advice to 'just' do this and that where the result would be worthwhile, but it's just not possible to do.

'The pressure-cooker had been expensive in its time. But the rubber ring round the lid was beginning to perish. Would Sonia ever have the spare cash to buy another? Would she have the energy to seek one out? Probably not. The ring would cost two pounds twenty-seven pence. She could soon recoup its cost in saved electricity. But the poor don't think like that. They can't. They never have the two pounds twenty-seven pence right now. That is why, if you ask me, the poor get poorer and the rich get richer.'

I think there is a bit of misunderstanding (me included) of what exactly is a low income. That does vary quite a lot from person to person. There's been times when we've been a bit hard up but never worrying about where the next meal is coming from.

Oh yes OP you are so right, I've seen it loads of times on here with the most absurd cringe-worthy advice being given.

It's easy to cook from scratch and in bulk when you have a fully equipped kitchen and your utilities are paid by direct debit, you have a nice big freezer, plenty of plastic containers and freezer bags. Some people think skint means 'oh dear I might have to dip into my savings account/use my credit card this month'. In fact thinking about it, direct debits are fab but do account for a lot of the ignorance on MN, because for many lucky people 'money' just means disposable income when all necessities have been covered.

But I still love MN

The free delivery offers from the supermarkets always have a minimum spend, which can be £40 (or even more). If you've got £20-25 in your food budget (or less), you're not going to be able to use the offers and you're not going to fancy paying £4 delivery.

It's even worse when you spend so much effort worrying about how you're going to feed everyone and then you have to sit down to bloody lentil bolognaise again. I appreciate that some weirdos MNers might enjoy lentil bolognaise, but I honestly can't think of a less appetising dish (and neither can my family, who have vetoed it due to the abominable texture of the lentils).

The key to making a magic chicken stretch to several meals is being incredibly stingey with the chicken in every dish you make. So it's really a vegetable curry with teeny amounts of chicken added (in the way you would something expensive like saffron).

Maybe that works for you Pimms. Some people can't plan their money month to month like that, can't you understand that? Also you can't get discounts online (I mean the stuff marked down like meat) . I've had deliveries from asdas and Tesco in the past and they always charge much more for slots after work or weekends. Also they often don't bring half your order or substitute it for shite.

The other thing with supermarket delivery is that you're not always sure how much it'll actually cost when it arrives. A little bit here and there on weighed goods, individually priced packs of meat and the inevitable substitutions might bugger up your planning - and even take you below the free delivery threshold you were so careful to just hit.

Brilliant thread crocodilesarevicious.

I think the other thing to consider - which also inspires a lot of 'pull yourself together' talk - is how utterly soul destroying it is to be in that situation. And when your self esteem, confidence and self-worth is in the shit, it's very hard to be motivated and keep positive, and come up with cute ideas on how to save £1 off your next shop.

Oh and re the horror that is Brighthouse...they're scandalous bastards. My neighbour like MANY single parents on low income/benefits and with little education about finance turn to this shithouse to buy dreadful things worth a third of what they end up paying.

They do it because they feel some shame in being poor and the lure of a brand new table and chairs is too tempting. I've bought nothing but 2nd hand vintage furniture for years...but would my neighbour? No. Because she sees it as "embarrassing".