To think many mumsnetters have little or no understanding of life on a low income

[crocodilesarevicious]

It's going to be hard to know how to phrase this as I don't want to cause offence.

I've been hanging around for a while. One thing I've noticed is that benefit threads become angry very quickly because so many are quite loud and fixed in their view that the UK is full of starving children reliant on value baked beans from food banks to fill their hungry tummies.

However, if someone who is on benefits or a low income is searching specific advice! they are often given quite short shrift. I've noticed this a few times - they are told, often brusquely, to retrain as something at university - usually a teacher or a nurse. These are graduate professions yet they are chucked out as something anyone can do. Not everyone can go to college or university due to financial restraints but also, some people don't have the academic ability. This is dismissed and shrugged off - if people aren't on much money then they need to find a way to make more money, even if this isn't possible.

Childminding, or starting a business is also suggested. People who rent may not be able to do this. Again, this takes a certain amount of financial and business savvy not to mention starting up costs.

Cooking is another area people seem to have little understanding of. It's so easy to cook healthy, cheap nutritious meals if your kitchen is large and a pleasure to cook in and you can whiz in the car to sainsburys or Tesco. If you have a small, grubby, dark kitchen and the local Spar or premier shop it's a bit different.

I suppose what I'm getting at is that when talking about people in general terms, Mumsnet likes to be left wing and PC. Yet when it's someone specific, irrelevant and often patronising advice is given to them and then they are flamed when they can't act on it.

My own position, while I'm a graduate and employed in a professional capacity, is perhaps between the two. I've never been reliant in benefits but was homeless for a time in my 20s and am able to see how things that look simple often aren't.

See above Thebody.

For some, having a spare room is a luxury for a start. A spare room someone else could live in, would want to live in, takes money. Even I, cushioned for the most part, would need to give my spare room a lick of paint and some fresh curtains. Oh, and a bed, since I don't have one in there.

well, I have no experience of poverty, right enough - either my own or anyone else's. And that doubtless colours my opinions. But I think there are plenty of people on MN on low incomes and being on here has certainly opened my eyes and, I hope, increased my understanding of that kind of life. In fact, I would go do far as to say that the only people I 'know' on low incomes/benefits/living in poverty are on MN.

I love it, Need. I'm not sure if you're being serious or if you're joking because you agree with me, but either way it nodded towards my point.

Yanbu. I've had to hide the current thread on getting into debt for Christmas for that very reason.

Last year I spent £7 on my DS but till got into debt. How? Because things that other Mnetters probably don't think of as a Christmas expense - such as huge petrol costs to visit family, the pressure to do the work Secret Santa, the cost of wrapping paper, the cost of turkey etc - tipped me over the edge.

I was also on the receiving end of it earlier this year when I said I couldn't afford to buy a friend a wedding gift and was told, in all seriousness, by one poster just not to buy a new outfit for the occasion.

I couldn't believe that people would seriously buy a new outfit for each and every wedding and assume everyone else was wealthy enough to do the same.

There are some people similarly struggling on here, but we're in the minority.

a lot of people think they know what being skint is like cos they shop in Aldi now

I love it.
They think cos they shop at Aldi, they're down at the coalface.

And grubby- clean it? Bwah Hah Hah!

Some places are so run down and not maintained by landlords, local authority etc that no amount of cleaning would make much difference. Fucking hell I've had a charmed life but do have some inkling of how tough it is out there for millions of people.

So what advise do people want? Do they want MN to have a whip round and send them some cash. If you are short of money there are only 2 possible things you can do, earn more or spend less. If people just want to whinge on about how tough they have it then they can expect short shrift from others

Joss I recall the 'sperm donation' thread - the OUTRAGE that some people didn't have £500 for IUI and therefore Shouldn't Be Having Children At All.

I find that lentil bolognaise is the MN answer to poverty. Maybe it's a wider cure-all too.

I think there are loads of normal people here though op?

Obviously you do get the book yourself a spa weekend love but they do get teased.

It's a lit more diverse than it used to be though and thankfully a lot less North London labour luvvies.

No insult intended.

I agree with thebody - there is a huge range of views and circumstances here - and that is what makes it interesting.

Yes some of the advice whether to low income posters or to people in difficult relationships or with challenging family circumstances or neighbours can be glib... "Why don't you just do xyz...??" and shows zero understanding of the situation. some however is fantastic, and supportive and comes from a different perspective and is really valuable.

Mmm I love lentil bolognese

Bonkers, it isn't just threads where being short of money is an issue, though, is it, as while money can't buy you happiness it can stave away unhappiness to a large extent.

I remember a recent thread from a lady who had been messed about by the school with regards to her DCs after school club - it was a perfectly standard AIBU about whether she had the right to be annoyed, and no, some claimed, she absolutely did not as she had not paid the ASC and how very dare she, get a childminder, get an au pair, home school (no, really! Someone actually did suggest this) and her pleas that her ASC places were funded by the college she was attending fell in deaf ears for a while.

That thread had nothing to do with money. Many threads have nothing to do with money and as a result, people assume posters have it.

They don't.

Speak for yourself, thebody

Nothing normal about me!

You could say the same about many things that are discussed on MN.

I don't have experience of living in real poverty, but then I don't expect other posters to always be able to relate to any and every issue I might choose to post about.

It is not unreasonable to suggest to someone that is having money problems that they try and get some work. No, not everyone will be able to retrain, but you don't need qualifications to do many jobs.

The thing with a forum like this is that someone posts an issue, and it's natural that posters will respond with advice or suggestions that the OP could use to try and make their situation easier, because what else are they supposed to do? But then it sometimes turns out that the OP didn't actually want advice, she just wanted to wallow in self pity or get sympathy from others, and that is when people get frustrated.

There's often an assumption with that people live in university towns or have transport to get to university.

Well, wherever you are you can do a degree via the OU, so that's not a very good example of MN-ers being out of touch.

I think there's quite a mix of people on MN and I've seen some really helpful answers on here about cutting costs, reducing bills, shopping frugally, free days out with kids, etc. Since the recession I think that's particularly true as so many have seen their incomes squeezed.

Kitchens. I helped a soon to be mum move into a HA flat. There was water pissing down the walls. The "cooker" was a two ring electrical portable type thing. No fridge. No microwave. Had she been able to cook in the flat (perhaps after cleaning it), she may very well have died from electrocution.

Actually, she did die in the end after an overdose because nobody and I mean NOBODY gave a flying fuck about her or her poverty or her problems or her unborn who was going to be taken away at birth, or her own terrible childhood.

Still, at least she got a "free" flat. And perhaps she could have avoided all of that misery (and death) if she'd planned the baby. Or retrained.

crocodiles YANBU
Infinitely more articulate wording of what I think sometimes. Will leave it at saying I agree with you without putting my foot in my mouth by expanding on this....

hellsandwich yes that is a sad story but people have to take responsibility for their own actions. Maybe harsh but that's life I'm afraid

Oh. YANBU by the way.

As well as the.magic chicken that lasts all week calamitousley seriously I cooked a chicken by yesterday it did us for Sunday dinner that's it! I do think mn is diverse there was a thread a while back about 100,000 pounds /year not being very much and there was the private school brigade and those that lived there n he centre of London saying it really wasn't and then there were the rest of us !

I think that mumsnetters are excellent about being frugal in fact - the twenty eight day chicken?

There is however a huge difference between frugality and poverty. I think we all know somebody frugal with thousands in the bank (my late father, in my case, I loved him dearly but he would park miles away from where we needed to be to avoid spending twenty pence. Sweet childhood memories of tramping through fields miles away from our chosen destination ) and the interesting thing about frugality is that it often needs to start from a place of having money. It is for example far cheaper to buy a washing machine than use a laundrette - but if you don't have the income to buy a washing machine in the first place it's largely a pointless argument. Over three months you'd probably have 'bought' a washing machine with the cash you need for the laundrette but if you don't have £200 in the bank, you don't have it.

I agree with you about ignorance regarding poverty but i would say 'many people' instead of 'many mnetters', i guess it is the same or even worst on other forums?

What i find strange is that in 2014 when we spend so much time on internet we should actually have more understanding. I mean someone the other day said 'i know about poverty, when i was on my own i had a rediculously low budget for food-only 30 pounds per week' !!
Ok i understand that some people only move in certain circles and havefamily and friends who earn well. But surely if you are on internet you should know that 30 pounds pw for one person is not poverty??

My two pet hates are :
a) 'i know about poverty because once when i was a student i ate baked beans in order to go to a club/festival'....blah blah blah.

b) 'well i have money and a 7 bed in Kensington because i worked hard and shopped at Lidl/Aldi'

I dont know... i shopped at Lidl for years and it didnt make me a millionaire. I must be doing something wrong.
Is it because i buy. the 59p chocolate every time i go there?

I agree OP, particularly about the childminding suggestion which usual crops up about 5 posts in. Never mind that you need the space; suitable equipment, toys etc to deliver EYFS; permission from your landlord to run a business from home; some sort of professional insurance; training (first aid as a minimum); and probably loads of other set up costs that I haven't thought of. And childminders of my acquaintance tell me that if there's an over supply in your area and you end up with spaces for any length of time, you can end up working for less than minimum wage. But no, according to some on here it is the answer to all financial problems

I have to watch every penny here, I have been in work and am just about to be out of work again due to DS's needs (autistic) .

I know I can claim Carers Allowance and I will do so as its that or going under. It's also to ensure the Jobcentre don't try and shoehorn me into another job I won't be able to keep up with.

I know exactly what you mean about people not always understanding. I also think everyone except the richest have got poorer. It's like David Cameron says he knows how hard it is to have a disabled child financially. He doesn't and never has because the luxury of money will always cushion that. He thinks he knows though as do many others.

I have a lot of things people might consider luxuries here. I have a laptop (not bragging but got it free as part of a customer review thing for Amazon), a flat screen TV which I bought while I was in work, I have a fancy mobile phone (taken while in work) now out of contract but which I hang onto until I need to sell it (time will come). I also have a car, not a fancy one but reliable and cheap to run. This is an essential for me as getting onto public transport with DS is a nightmare....been there. It's not a Motability car....just a normal car which my parents bought for me when they sold their house. It was less than £3k but I am lucky to have had it as a gift.

I think what I am also saying here is that I have been fortunate enough to have worked most of my life since aged 18 (am nearly 50) so have a lot more "luxuries" than someone younger who hasn't had my good fortune and who has never had regular work.

But if I say I am on a low income and then list the above luxuries I'd be pilloried here.

I don't consider myself poor though. I have a roof over my head, enough to eat as I am a good "make a meal out of nothing" type cook and we are warm.

I have met younger parents who are struggling much more....I have been into houses where it was almost colder inside than outside and where children were living. In terms of poverty theirs was much much worse than anything I have experienced.