To think many mumsnetters have little or no understanding of life on a low income

[crocodilesarevicious]

It's going to be hard to know how to phrase this as I don't want to cause offence.

I've been hanging around for a while. One thing I've noticed is that benefit threads become angry very quickly because so many are quite loud and fixed in their view that the UK is full of starving children reliant on value baked beans from food banks to fill their hungry tummies.

However, if someone who is on benefits or a low income is searching specific advice! they are often given quite short shrift. I've noticed this a few times - they are told, often brusquely, to retrain as something at university - usually a teacher or a nurse. These are graduate professions yet they are chucked out as something anyone can do. Not everyone can go to college or university due to financial restraints but also, some people don't have the academic ability. This is dismissed and shrugged off - if people aren't on much money then they need to find a way to make more money, even if this isn't possible.

Childminding, or starting a business is also suggested. People who rent may not be able to do this. Again, this takes a certain amount of financial and business savvy not to mention starting up costs.

Cooking is another area people seem to have little understanding of. It's so easy to cook healthy, cheap nutritious meals if your kitchen is large and a pleasure to cook in and you can whiz in the car to sainsburys or Tesco. If you have a small, grubby, dark kitchen and the local Spar or premier shop it's a bit different.

I suppose what I'm getting at is that when talking about people in general terms, Mumsnet likes to be left wing and PC. Yet when it's someone specific, irrelevant and often patronising advice is given to them and then they are flamed when they can't act on it.

My own position, while I'm a graduate and employed in a professional capacity, is perhaps between the two. I've never been reliant in benefits but was homeless for a time in my 20s and am able to see how things that look simple often aren't.

I suppose being on a low income often comes with lots of other challenges which take up time and energy.

Admin for example, endless appointments, feeling unwell. A can stop you thinking about rustling up a chicken kiev.

Yes! Walking everywhere, four supermarkets and a market instead of one to hunt out the cheapest bargains, jobhunting, studying, filling in forms, time devoted to eeking thing out, mending everything, plotting and planning. And everybody else thinks your time is cheap/plentiful too when you are poor/need benefits/are a carer/unemployed.

" I take home £2400 p/m. My take home cash therefore after nursery and mortgage is about the same as I would get as a lone parent claiming IS and CTC."

I did a double take at that.

I'm not sure what that is illustrating?

Booking a spa weekend,ha ha. Ridiculous for most people.
If I has that kind of money I would be replacing the tyres on my car (bald), doing a massive grocery shop (at Lidl) and going to the gynie about the fanny pain I have had for a year (no decent free healthcare where I live).

It is really difficult to cook cheap, nutritious, delicious food.

Cheap delicious, a doddle (mars bar)
nutritious, delicious, a doddle - just pop along to Waitrose.
cheap nutritious - getting harder, but still doable

Combining all three - well I find it a challenge, and I'm just trying to be frugal, not actually living in poverty.

Really interesting thread OP.

I am often surprised a) by the vitriol and b) the speed by which vitriol is unleashed, on AIBU.

A lot of the other MN sections seem very supportive, but AIBU often seems a clear fight between the "you evil rich b@stards" and the "benefits clarinets are all scroungers" brigades.

I saw one thread today about Cameron and Jack, where some posters really seemed to believe that someone rich was less upset than someone poor, about the death of a child. Unbelievable.

Really autocorrect, it's hardly. Going to be benefits clarinets is it?? Claimants!

Forgot to say that my car is 19 years old and a wreck. Hope it scrapes through its MOT next month. Another worry, more expense.

"I wouldn;t be so patronising as to offer her cooking lessons"

Exactly. I figured DD showing her how to boil a bit of veg would work a whole lot better than me doing it.

I wondered what a Benefits Clarinet was

It sounded poetic

The problem with eating on a tight budget is that you often need a car to get to the biggest supermarkets with the cheapest deals. Our town centre supermarket has fewer budget options than the glossy one 2 miles up the road. Same goes for Lidl and Aldi, ours aren't central so shoppers need a car. And it's impossible to head to the supermarket in the early evening for the bargain reduced items if you have a small child at home. Add working, juggling children and looking after the house and there isn't much time to cook from scratch.

It read the entire thread but wanted to add that for some people cooking in a lit kitchen is a luxury. On token meters you have to watch every switch if money is very tight. If you run out of power it's tough till you next have money. I remember rubbish sandwiches, candles and cold showers when DS1 was small. Then the washer broke. Saved on electricity but had to wash baby things by hand and dry in a cold damp flat. It's ok to say plan better but that is not always possible. Thank goodness things are better now.

...and... if you only have space for a mini freezer you can't batch cook. Or buy giant sizes of laundry liquid / margarine / anything to save money. If I bought a giant bag of spuds / rice it would have to sit in the living room and frankly I don't rate it's chances with the kids tearing around.

We should hopefully be moving next year and have a bit more space, and I'm actually over excited that I will be able to get a big freezer and have food storage for giant value sizes of various things.

downtheroad, I was on the thread you are talking about

"I saw one thread today about Cameron and Jack, where some posters really seemed to believe that someone rich was less upset than someone poor, about the death of a child. Unbelievable."

can you quote the posters who thought this? I didnt see this at all.

OP YANBU, I don't have any experience of living on a low income or benefits, but that's not to say that I can't have some sympathy and understand that I don't have a clue, rather than tell people in that position how they should live their lives.

I do think that one of the most useful things we can teach our DC is to cook The food they like to eat.

If you are a natural planner then it does seem incredible that someone can make the single most momentous decision you can, to have a child without having considered all the various scenarios - the most basic of which is can this be afforded.

It exactly the same as the threads where someone says 'he's been cheating on me since day one but now I'm pregnant with dc4'. Some people genuinely can't understand the thought process that results in that happening.

Yes, life happens and can go spectacularly wrong, bereavement, redundancy and illness happen to every one and can throw the best laid plans.

But, there are threads where the poster lays out the situation and then seems baffled when people question how they got in that scenario.

And on the food point, anyone on mumsnet is on the internet. Therefore can do an online delivery which means it is much easier to see how much you are spending and much easier to stick to a budget.

Cheap cuts of meat, and the ubiquitous lentils, need a lot of cooking, which means a lot of gas/electricity.

I was educated about this on a food bank thread - those in real poverty value food which will be hot quickly, not after four hours of simmering. So a tin of lentil soup is better than a bag of lentils.

The five day chicken thread made my mind boggle.

I think people are also unaware when someone takes up a housing association property it is a shell, there are no carpets, it isn't decorated , there is no cooker, fridge , washing machine unlike where there may be in private rented accommodation. It is a huge expense to get it to a normal standard of living.

Bizarrely when you leave housing association the house must be bare so you actually have to pull all carpets and underlay up and put the house back to the way it was

Anyone with a bank card can do an online shop.

I've seen both ends of the spectrum on here. Some of the cooking threads are unbelievable, like the 5 day chicken and lentil overload others have mentioned.

The other side is wedding and hen/stag weekend threads when people talk about spending £1000 on a hen weekend and then another £1000 on the wedding. I just don't get it, I can't understand how people have that much disposable income.

The five day chicken thread made my mind boggle

this is something that bewilders me too.

I had a reasonably big chick yesterday (from Lidl...)

it lasted us one meal - how anyone can make-
A chicken pie
and then
A chicken curry
and then
a chicken soup with the absolute bones of the carcass -

is beyond me.

Pimmsoclock - you're illustrating the OP's point pretty well I'm afraid.

And what you say about planning ... this article by Linda Tirado is pretty amazing on that: www.theguardian.com/society/2014/sep/21/linda-tirado-poverty-hand-to-mouth-extract

Yes

We buy chicken

We eat chicken

Er that's it

Anyone with a bank card and enough money in their bank can do an on-line shop. I'm not sure I'd on-line shop when trying to eek out a tenner over the week.

What are mid-week low spend delivery fees these days,a fiver? Possibly more? You have to spend a lot for free delivery.

It's not a given that anyone with the internet can do an online shop. Many people on benefits have basic post office accounts not debit cards. And the delivery charge could be too much of a chunk out of someone's food budget.