To never want anyone to champion Jack Monroe again?

[SuperScrimper]

After what she has tweeted about David Cameron. here

Like him or loathe him to describe the way he talks about his deceased son as 'misty eyed' and used for political gain is disgusting.

The greatest loss any of us can imagine is the loss of a child. Shock horror, even politician have real feeling. It's just awful that she would say that about another parent.

I don't care what she can do with a bloody lentil. Something's are just too low.

Icimoi, it's just a casual observation, hardly an obsession. It's the sort of teenagery quirk my 14 year old would pursue. How can I be different edgy and anti establishment? etc etc etc

raltheraffe I've been a carer. I have disabilities. I was speaking from my own experience, not telling you what yours was.

Yes it sucks, but we have a healthy son and I would rather deal with all these benefit cuts than watch my son suffer and die with millions in the bank.

I'm glad your son is healthy. Many people neither have a healthy child nor millions in the bank. They are the ones who the cuts will and are hurting most. That's what this thread is about.

She's not unemployable, is she? She's employed by Sainburys and the Guardian!

No its not what the thread is about.

She is comparing DCs experience to carers who have benefit cuts. Not specifically carers of terminally ill children, carers in general, that is what her Tweet reads as.

On the plus side she is marginally less annoying than Jamie Oliver.

fairy. You are very wrong. OK, if faced with your inability to access adequate NHS care Cameron could probably get around that by going privately BUT. It's about much more more than money.

He still has to wake up every morning wondering if his severely ill child has made it through the night and when the next crisis will occur. Money foes not shield you from that. And money doesn't stop your severely disabled child from dying, nor foes it idolaters you from the devastating bereavement of that loss.

My son's PIP assessment is still with the DWP decision maker and has been for 7 weeks now. That is not acceptable

Your apology for accusing me of something I hadn't done was very gracious, thank you, raltheraffe

And any carer, whether long term or of someone who is terminally ill, is affected by the cuts, and the shaky future of the NHS.

I find myself in a rather interesting position on this one.

I don't agree with the original tweet and I think describing anybody's references to their dead child as 'misty eyed' is pretty bloody callous tbh.

However I certainly hold no brief for Cameron and I don't think the NHS is safe in his hands - I suspect though that he may think it is. Definitions on what's best for the NHS vary after all.

And whilst I don't agree with Sarah Vine's rampantly homophobic nasty little piece, I can see why she may have been moved to such vitriol - because she knew the Camerons at the time they lost their child. I have friends who have lost children and I have friends in danger of the same loss atm. If Jack or anybody ever used 'misty eyed' about their situation in any context whatsoever I would be keen to rend them limb from limb in any way I could. Which is why any responsible editor would never let her near the keyboard on such an emotive subject but hey it is the DM after all.

I also note that Jack has certainly had massive 'press' as a result of this, her ego was already pretty healthy (nothing wrong with that) and yes she does have a book out.

So overall I have to say I feel zero sympathy for everyone involved except for Samantha Cameron. Who once again sees an aspect of her most terrible and personal bereavement played out in public. David chose his career and it involves public exposure but she never chose any of this.

But raltheraffe she's not comparing a rich family with a disabled child to a poor family with a healthy child. At all.

She's comparing a rich family with a disabled child, to a poor family with a disabled child.

As others have said, it's a crap situation either way (to put it mildly) but the poor family will have to spend an extraordinary amount of time fighting for the basics and having to justify them.

I know I live in constant fear of cuts, of vital support vanishing, as do most other people with disabilities I know. The ones who don't have enough to support themselves either way, and it takes a lot of the stress and worry away.

Afternoon,

Thanks everyone for your reports about this thread. We've no issue with people discussing this topic, but can we ask folks to please keep their posts civil. We will remove any remarks about Jack or Cameron that we feel to be beyond the pale (as per our guidelines) - so please try to keep the conversation constructive.

Many thanks.

My daughter has hydranencephaly and epilepsy, she is on the surface very similarly disabled to Ivan Cameron, I don't know the ins and outs but she has uncontrolled epilepsy and catastrophic brain damage.

We are floundering as a family trying to fight for services which are crumbling beneath us. Our NHS trust has been left with one CCN to cover all children with epilepsy where before there were two. Our physio provision has been cut as there is now one part time instead of one full time and one part time. Our children's services which includes the complex health team and palliative care team have been sold to Virgin. We had to begin a formal complaint to access an OT when my daughter has a dislocated hip needs 24 hour postural care and has a variety of equipment. We will be discharged again and have to re - refer when we need them, this takes months. The only respite centre which could adequately care for my daughter has been closed. Clinics local to us for orthotics and audio have been stopped. The allocation of supportive orthopaedic suits which is hopefully going to stop her spine curving has been reduced.

I am at a loss. It isn't hard caring for my darling girl it is beyond hard fighting the system to get what she needs.

This government don't care. They are actively destroying the system and services which have saved my daughter's life. I am sick of hearing Cameron talk about how much the NHS did for his son when he is destroying it for families like ours who have no other choice. My dd is 8 and things are far far worse now than at any other point in her life.

I have heard Cameron using Ivan to shut down argument after argument on the NHS, DLA etc. It is beyond contempt as is he.

have not apologised to anyone and do not need to

He still has to wake up every morning wondering if his severely ill child has made it through the night and when the next crisis will occur. Money foes not shield you from that. And money doesn't stop your severely disabled child from dying, nor foes it idolaters you from the devastating bereavement of that loss.

That is true, for the moment. It will cease to be true as the NHS is cut from under us.

And he was able to go to bed, knowing that when it was needed he could afford round-the-clock carers for his son - that his son would be as well looked-after as was possible, even if he wasn't there. He didn't have to stagger in and out endless nights of little sleep, waking often to take someone he wasn't strong enough to carry properly to a bathroom he could not afford to adapt.

Of course he will suffer and grieve just as deeply anyone who has lost someone suffers and grieves. But I bet he didn't have to go into his overdraft for the funeral down-payment. That's the reality of many carer's lives.

WetAugust I haven't got it wrong at all.

They weren't worried where their next meal was coming from, they weren't worried about getting adaptions done in their house, they weren't worried about finding for equipment, getting him into the right school, getting some respite.

There are families worried about all of that because of him and have the worry about wether their child will make it through the day/night too.

As for me going private, are you actually serious? You are the one who hasn't got a clue and that comment just about takes the fecking biscuit!

Fairy. Read what I said properly before criticising. I said Cameron could probably have used private services. I did not say that YOU should.

But you've missed the point again. All those things that you say would not have troubled Cameron are all things that money could put tight. You have again failed yo credit the man with emotions and no amount of money can salve your emotions when you are watching a child in such a devastating situation

I think Bobloblaw's post says it all.

Bobloblaw, that is a fantastic post. It illustrates perfectly why Parliament platitudes mean absolutely nothing.

I just wrote a huge post, giving another example of how Camerona experiences are 'wrapped in cotton wool' compared to the average person caring for someone with disabilities but, fuck it, people don't want to listen, so what's the point.

Cameron may well have lost his child, and for that I have every sympathy. But he has NO IDEA about 'real life' caring - he didn't even know how many adult nappies were supplied daily for children with profound disabilities - he didn't know how much they cost, didn't know how few were given 'free' and when he did know - DID FUCK ALL ABOUT IT.

He sat there with Riven, sympathised, commiserated, shared experiences of his life with Ivan (right there - using his son - right there) PROMISED to help. And DIDN'T.

So I am in full agreement with Jack. When it suits him, when he can 'get something out of it' - shutting down, getting votes, looking compassionate, he is quite happy to use his son.

I don't like the way she worded it, but she was telling the TRUTH - and sometimes the truth hurts.

WetAugust you are the one spectaculary missing the point, not me!

The biggest problem with this whole thing is she told the truth, he knows it, his party knows it, the Press know it and it did hurt.

MNHQ: Jack or Cameron? At least be bloody consistent if you're going to pretend to be even-handed.

But raltheraffe she's not comparing a rich family with a disabled child to a poor family with a healthy child. At all.

She's comparing a rich family with a disabled child, to a poor family with a disabled child.

As others have said, it's a crap situation either way (to put it mildly) but the poor family will have to spend an extraordinary amount of time fighting for the basics and having to justify them.

I know I live in constant fear of cuts, of vital support vanishing, as do most other people with disabilities I know. The ones who don't have enough to support themselves either way, and it takes a lot of the stress and worry away.

Sorry, it posted twice.

I genuinely do not read it that way GlitterBelle. My interpretation is different.

Here is the Tweet again:

.And that his experience of caring for Ivan was not comparable to experiences of others, many of whom are now victims of welfare cuts.

I think when she refers to others she is referring to other carers, one of which I am.

I know a lot of carers as we are members of a carers society. None of the other carers I know care for a dying child. I should imagine dealing with a dying child is the most horrendous job that a parent/carer must have to do.

My DH is classed as severely disabled and we are facing welfare cuts. However I would rather have that than care for a dying child.

This woman is just a professional victim. I have read her experience of being on benefits and it is total rubbish. Most of my in-laws are on benefits and although they are not well off, they never go without food. I was on incapacity for 2 years and never went hungry. It is a massive exaggeration.

I do not like DC and I think what he has done to the NHS is dreadful, but NOTHING justifies her stupid comments.

I don't particularly like her wording but I agree with her sentiment. My daughter is life limited we use a hospice for children who are not expected to live to adulthood. We were actually told her condition is incompatible with life and she

Pressed post too soon....wouldn't live to her first birthday. Her life has been saved multiple times by our NHS. I have spoken to families in other countries who have children with hydranencephaly and felt so grateful to live here. Under this government that is changing. Provision for children like Ivan and my daughter is being torn apart. Cameron knows this, his government is completely aware of what their actions are doing to profoundly disabled children and they don't care. Cameron uses his experience to shut down questions. It is deeply unjust to children like my daughter that questions can't be asked of him.