to politely decline to use the disabled loo?

[MsIngaFewmarbles]

I was waiting in a long queue for the loo in a coffee chain and saw a lady with crutches head into the disabled toilet. She came out while I was still queueing. Another lady further back in the queue caught my eye and offered for me to go in first. I declined saying that I wasn't disabled so wasn't entitled to use it. She then countered away to her friends telling them that she was going to use it as 'it was the law' that if it wasn't being used you could use it. I couldn't face an argument so just ignored her. It's still bothering me that I should have said something to her and corrected her.

On the off chance that some people are a bit thick and don't realise, rather than just purely selfish....

I am using a wheelchair. Like the majority of other, healthy, people I realise I need to use the toilet, run of the mill shopping centre stuff. However, unlike the majority of people, i have to self propel my wheelchair (with bad wrists and hands so I am slow), so it takes longer and it is painful to do. The nearest toilet isn't accessible so I wheel to the next toilet, further away which takes longer. Someone is in this toilet so I wait, sitting outside (and it's NEVER a minute, normally five minimum). When the toilet is free I have to manoeuvre myself through the door, get it closed and locked and then remove my clothing and transfer (I don't feel like being more specific but I'm sure you can imagine how much harder it is). Then do it all in reverse to get out.

So, in this scenario, if the person coming out of the toilet is disabled we normally share a glance of empathy, no harm, we are in the same situation. HOWEVER if the person is not disabled and comes out, (and they ALWAYS do this, always) blushes and says "oh there was a queue for the other one, I didn't think anyone would mind and I was only going to be a minute", quite frankly, I think they are a selfish, inconsiderate arse, and generally tell them so if I don't mind the attention from other people staring.

Bear in mind, I am in pain every single minute, wheeling around and even sitting in the chair so this can be the final straw. It's no wonder I barely leave the house these days, and it's not my disability that causes this, it's other people.

If even one person realises the inconvenience and selfishness of their actions, it will be worth it, but should I have to justify this by detailing how I go to the fucking toilet, really?

So next time someone who isn't disabled uses the accessible toilet, bear in mind you might come out to meet me sitting waiting, with my MN vocabulary and my grumpiness!

Moon, you don't need to apologise. Just smile politely and hold the door open for the person going in, as you would in any other toilet. I doubt they are really glaring.

I never notice anyone glaring when I come out of a disabled loo (though my minimal eyesight might mean that I miss it!) My disability is not necessarily obvious, but it is there. Because others use the loo when they shouldn't, doesn't mean you should feel guilty when you have a genuine need.

Thank you Moomin and do stop apologising for using a loo that you're perfectly entitled to use. As I said earlier, they were originally constructed under the Chronically ill and Disabled Persons Act a category into which you definitely fall. As does dd two, also with EDS.

I would have told you yabu, until I had a son with sn.

Now I think you are a star.

It is the absolute pits waiting for people who don't need it.

How does anyone know if you are disabled anyway? I would say for example, a few women who have had babies, need the toilet urgently, have to go quickly. Is anyone going to stand there and argue the point.

I do use them, very quickly, but then I have one kidney and don't like to leave it too long. Am I excused?

Moomin, you shouldn't feel ashamed and you shouldn't apologise.

I know it's hard but you are doing yourself a disservice. Practise your empathetic rueful smile, mine comes naturally to me now!

I have to say, when I was using crutches rather than my chair, I felt like you too, but always stopped myself from apologising on the grounds that I did need it.

I would never start shouting at anyone who just came out of the toilet btw, it's when people make it clear they are not disabled. I posted earlier about camping and every single time I wheeled across the hilly fucking field, there was a NT family using the disabled shower room with the only disabled toilet as they couldn't wait.

"HOWEVER if the person is not disabled and comes out"

YesIDidMeanToBe i totally sympathise with you.

But you can't really decide if someone who comes out is disabled or not. Fair enough if they say "oh sorry there was a queue" but it is really difficult to know if someone has a disablity otherwise.

I was waiting for DH and DD outside disabled toilet once and a man and his wife were waiting and having a rant about how "she was too old to be in a nappy" so they didnt know why they were in there. She wasnt too old, was in a nappy(at 7) and they did have to be in there as its impossible to change a 7 year olds nappy in a small cubicle or on a changing table for up to 15kg.

I did put them straight in a nice way, but it is difficult to judge, as moomin has found.

The clue to someone using the toilet when they know they shouldn't, usually they preface their apology with "oh I know I shouldn't......"

I always give the benefit of the doubt until they make it clear they aren't using it through need and they know they're wrong.

yes that's fair enough. It is a minefield I know.

Yanbu. I wouldn't use one either, OP.

Gosh this is moving quickly now so apologies for cross posts.

I am sensitive to invisible disabilities, as my DC have them and I didn't use a wheelchair myself until I deteriorated, but I was still disabled.

I honestly don't pin people against the wall with my chair and quiz them but if they admit they don't NEED it, (which is 99% of the time as they are probably like the selfish people on this thread who don't think it's wrong), I do try and enlighten them.

yes that is fair enough YesIDid

These threads drive me insane...
What if you weren't disabled, didn't have a medical condition but just absolutely desperate to go? Would that still not be acceptable?
Would some people rather anyone soiled themselves rather than use a disabled toilet?
In my view we should all live and let live and try and be considerate to others.

I have asked if I can go first in a queue cos I'm desperate in the past (I don't have a medical condition, I can have waiting issues (probably purely psychological) but I have actually wet myself) - no-one ever minded ....I've also done the same with small desperate children...the majority of people are understanding.

But then I am really selfish - I did park in a disabled spot a few months ago ...long journey, as usual lots of planned 'comfort breaks' but roadworks meant a 10 mile mainly off motorway diversion to the services I planned on using so I went to the next lot - 20 miles on motorway - by the time I got there I was sweating, panicking, couldn't concentrate on driving etc...only to find a new layout, change in parking - there were 3 empty disabled spots in front of the loos, no other spots visible and I don't think I was capable of manoeuvring - three point turn etc to find one...I parked in the disabled spot, left my DCs in the car and ran to the loos (not the disabled one - but with no other choice I would have used them - I would have used a hole in the ground with a screen by that stage -maybe even without a screen...)
I'm sure that makes me a terrible person...

Well then unlucky you have had an insight into how some people with disabilities feel.

Imagine if you had been in that situation and toilet was full..of people who didn't really need it.

Oh for god's sake, you are able bodied unlucky, those with disabilities are the ones who live the catastrophe you describe, day in, day out. If you need to catastrophise your situation, then you are very, very obviously in the wrong. And yes, I know that's harsh, mean, unfair, but try being really, properly disabled for a day. Then discuss it.

I probably do have more of an insight than you imagine ...I did have a disabled (orange at that time) badge a long time ago...just for difficulty walking.
But my condition improved (against all the doctors expectations) so I didn't renew ... and in fact tried not to use it as things had started to get better...
Consideration for others and all that ...

Well if you still have issues meaning you need to use disabled toilet urgently you should be glad people are trying to protect them otherwise they'd be full of others just nipping in for a minute,tbh.

Yes, I apologise for using accessible toilets when the baby change is in there. Cos yes I needed to use it. But I still feel guilty that I've blocked someone who probably had a greater need.

The main problem is there aren't enough toilets full stop. I had a condition for a while which meant weeing every half an hour or so and my whole life revolved around finding the next loo (although I didn't think of this as a disability really). Now I just have a crappy pelvic floor after two kids and need to go quite a lot when out and about.

There's just too few toilets. Plus accessible ones are extremely annoying in that they don't really cater for different groups at all- someone with Crohns might need to go urgently, but baby change is pretty much always in the large accessible ones (perhaps not in super big shopping centres, but in my neck of the woods) which means ages waiting. Plus men's toilets don't often have any baby change at all as my husband found out when caring for our two children in nappies by himself. He eventually got given (asked for) a Radar key as there was no changing facilities at all for men in the swimming pools/local council toilets for dads to use at all which he gave back once they were out of nappies (we live in a rather backward area and they have redone both now, perhaps because he complained/compliance with disability legislation)

There are lots of people who need more toilets, I have perfected the art of marching into a location and confidently acting like a patron to use the toilet but it is embarrassing. I would not use a disabled loo unless desperate, but plenty of people are rather desperate, little children potty training, mums with poor bladders or who just need a wee a lot, as well as those who have more severe incontinence or other disabilities. Women in particular are not well-served by new buildings and the queue for the loo if we go to the theatre or cinema is often huge for women. I feel quite cross about it actually and would feel even crosser if I was disabled given how inaccessible everything is anyway.

slithy bad and adapted planning isn't your problem. If the baby change is there, then you have a need.

Yes but not as great a need. So I am one of those guilty apologisers maybe throwing out the stats! As moomin said, some guilty apologisers are justified in the use of the accessible loos. A small minority though I'm sure.

I used an accessible toilet about two weeks ago. I had had a funny tummy all day and got the ' I need to go right this second' feeling. There was a que for the non accessible toilets and none for the accessible ones so I just used those. Before my arse had even touched the seat the flood gates opened.

Should I have stood and waited for the other toilet and shit myself?

Aww, Slithy we do understand when there are limited choices, really we do. Although I think many folk feel that baby change areas should be seperate and that they too should accomodate older people that may require changing too, but the Changing Places campaign covers that.
The point some of us have made is that even with baby changing, the accessible lavatory is still more likely to be empty if other folk, capable of using other lavatories are not using it too.

I realise my post sounds quite argumentative. That was not my intention. I'm just wondering wether almost soiling yourself is a good enough reason to use an accessible toilet. Or wether those with disabilities would still be seen as having a greater need for those toilets regardless of wether they themselves were busting to go or not.

OP, The lady was correct.

If it's empty use it since if someone disabled turns up they will have only a minute before you are done. That can also happen if another disabled person is already in there.

What you can't do is to form a queue in front of of it so a disabled person has to wait for several people. That would be just wrong.