to politely decline to use the disabled loo?

[MsIngaFewmarbles]

I was waiting in a long queue for the loo in a coffee chain and saw a lady with crutches head into the disabled toilet. She came out while I was still queueing. Another lady further back in the queue caught my eye and offered for me to go in first. I declined saying that I wasn't disabled so wasn't entitled to use it. She then countered away to her friends telling them that she was going to use it as 'it was the law' that if it wasn't being used you could use it. I couldn't face an argument so just ignored her. It's still bothering me that I should have said something to her and corrected her.

I can think of a very specific condition that makes women vomit or feel the need to do that unexpectedly.

Perhaps there should be more toilets accessible for everybody as well as a toilet for disabled users. I imagine that most establishments put in as many as they're legally obliged to and no more.

Well clearly if they have that condition then fair enough lying. I am talking about people just grasping at straws to win argument, not people with conditions.

So it is morally right - the compassionate, human thing to do - that someone should piss/shit/vomit on themselves because they are abled bodied rather than use a vacant, useable toilet that has a disabled label on the door...
(love Avon's 'because you haven't been for a while' ...as if it is a choice, there is a toilet (not disabled) on every street corner isn't there... us abled bodied people - hey - who chose to almost piss ourselves just so we have an excuse to use a disabled loo hmm)

Oh, for heaven's sake, that's just silly! Obviously if you are about to piss/shit/vomit because you physically cannot stop yourself, then, yes, use the accessible loo. The key being that you can't stop yourself. If you have no physiological reason other than just really needing a wee, perhaps wait until there is another toilet available. I cannot think of that many situations where I've been so close to urinating over myself or worse, unless I've been ill, in which case, that's an emergency. But, really that doesn't happen that often. It's not that tricky to grasp, is it?

I'm referring to pregnancy, Fanjo. Self-limiting condition certainly. I would have been very distressed to be sick in public; my friend didn't feel the same, she would throw up anywhere.

I just think a bit of consideration to anybody who has needs, whether they are classed as having a disability, would be a good thing. I think it makes people generally more disposed and considerate all round.

Yes but no one is advocating no compassion.

I was talking about people who invent all sorts of scenarios to prove a point.

Noone was talking about vomiting but about if a queue of able bodied people all just nipped in to accessible toilet for a minute just because they could. Like woman in OP.

Suddenly it's about having no compassion for pregnant people or what happens if you suddenly get an itchy arse and all sorts of things. Just because.people want to win an argument

It is sad really.

Except plenty of these "unlikely scenarios" have been outlined by women who have already experienced them.

But some people's lived experience counts and some people's doesn't, clearly.

Not wanting people to nip in one after another because it's free is one thing.

Where does having no compassion for pregnant women come into it?

That's quite an insulting implication really, sorry.

Who says their experiences don't count?

I personally was objecting to scenario in OP. Due to fact if everyone popped in it would never be free. As I said a million times.

So accusations of not having compassion for various people is just ridiculous.you know nothing of my personal bladder issues or anything else?

It just seems like some desperation to find some scenarios to make us seem uncaring. You know nothing of my attitude to people with medical conditions or indeed if I have any.

Avon glad you posted that - but if you read the thread - even what you wrote it is coming across as that being the case!
The point is that I would 100% agree that people shouldn't use the disabled loo if they don't really need to - because they can't be arsed to wait etc...
But there are some posters who are saying (or at least giving the impression) that an abled bodied person should NEVER -under no circumstances- ever - use a disabled toilet. They would rather see someone suffer and soil themselves than use it ...and actually that shows disabled people in a very negative light...and I don't think it represents the majority.
I just think compassion and common sense goes a long way - we are all human, should all show consideration for others -think about how our behaviour impacts on others and try to make everyone's life as easy as possible.

Am not indulging this guilt tripping PA shite any more.

The thread was about nipping into the toilet because it's free. And I said loads of times that is wrong as it would never be free.

Obviously there are exceptions.

My point above does not mean I think it's a crime if someone suddenly gets the shits and has to nip in there.

How ridiculous.

Why the sheer desperation to make me/us look bad?

Just stop it. Think about scenario in OP.

And other spurious stuff like people being worried their babies would be kidnapped.

That's what we were objecting to.

Not people with medical conditions or pregnant or whatever.

Jeeeeeze.

^ that.

Why is this becoming a 'them and us'? That's what's really ridiculous. There's no 'league table' of need, just commonsense consideration that seems to be really in short supply from all 'sides'. I don't get it.

I hate these threads, I don't know why I bothered to post on it. I won't bother again other than to hide them. They're so bloody aggressive; nothing 'PA' about it either.

I'll keep doing what I'm doing in terms of considering others, working like a charm so far.

I am not going to post on this thread again, it is too fucking depressing.

Parent's with buggies, mooncup users, and people who want to nip in because there is a queue - don't use the disabled toilet, it makes live harder for people who have a real need.

People who are about to vomit/piss/crap themselves - use the disabled toilet. it is an emergency and an unusual circumstance.

If it isn't an unusual circumstance, but you have a hidden disability that means you need to use the disabled toilet - then use the disabled toilet.

See - no screaming, no passive aggression, no calling anyone a cunt.

I won't be campaigning for more toilets in general, but I will campaign for truly accessible disabled toilets www.changing-places.org/ - just a final link for anyone interested!

Fanjo - my post wasn't aimed directly at you - it was a general feeling. Which was the reason I felt compelled to post in the first place.
Maybe unfair to pick on one example but I said upthread (along with an experience of mine).

In my view we should all live and let live and try and be considerate to others.
And in reply (not by you) got told my experiences weren't valid, there are no excuses. To quote

If you need to catastrophise your situation, then you are very, very obviously in the wrong.
This is one eg and there are several in a similar vein on this thread ...
As hazey and you said in your last post - there are exonerating reasons for an abled bodied person using a disabled loo - but at one point that wasn't the impression being given...

And I'd agree there are also lazy selfish ignorant self absorbed twats ...true in all areas of life....but I like to think they are in the minority.

Thanks unlucky

I actually think what has happened here is that noone objects to genuine exonerating circumstances but that has been misunderstood in heat of the thread, when people were angry merely at those who thought it was fine to just pop in for no real reason, not those with medical conditions, and has led to much aggrievedness.

Which has been stoked up by some people who really got very nasty about it.

I myself am waiting for a bladder op and have IBS..TMI/sucks to be me..so am.not really the person to accuse of not understanding about urgency (not saying you did but there were some pretty harsh posted directed at me ).

I think it's more inescapable than that though, Fanjo - there is a genuine conflict between "loo for the use of disabled people" and "loo which is accessible so that disabled people are able to use it." Same as between the goal of making facilities available that are specifically for disabled people and trying to make all facilities accessible to disabled people. And with loos there is no clear social trend or legislation either way: some accessible loos are designed as multipurpose but accessible nevertheless; some are designed for the sole use of the disabled. And it's perfectly right for those who live with disability to say that able bodied people often don't appreciate what that means, and might need to be more considerate and courteous about that. But what is unhelpful is to pretend that the disabled/accessible loo is something that we all understand exactly the written or unwritten rules of use of, and are therefore somehow morally wrong in "breaking" those rules. If there was clear legislation on this it would be one thing. If what people want is for everyone to ask themselves "is this a multiuse loo or a loo specifically for the use of the disabled and what exactly are the expectations of use here" every time, then that would also be logical (though hard to enforce). But saying we all know it's morally wrong to use the accessible loo, except when it's got a baby change, or is the only loo, or the staff tell you to, or the other loos are broken, or you have a hidden disability, or extreme extenuating circumstances" (and so on), isn't that fair really, because there IS no clear social or legal set of rules surrounding how everyone thinks of who gets to use the accessible loo.

But it is clear to me. Even before I had DD who is disabled. I just left it free for those who needed it even if there was a queue. Not sure why this is such a difficult concept or why it enrages people...and I don't mean people with medical conditions.

If one person reads this thread and it makes them think twice whether to use an accessible toilet then it's been worth it.

These threads are frustrating and depressing especially for mothers of children with a disability but I hope the penny will drop with at least a few.

It has not at all been worth it, sadly.

I have had an unbelievably difficult day for personal reasons made worse by all this aggro.

I'm sorry Fanjo [drink]
Hopefully like I said someone will read it and think twice next time.

That was a Freudian slip should have been

fanjo

I do wonder if this is a bit of a London/SSE issue as where I live you could sit in Costa all day every day (which on my first mat leave I more or less did) and never see a wheelchair or 'obvious' disabled toilet user. Are there queues constantly down South? The accessible loo is nearly always empty in the places I go but it seems that's not a regular experience.

Thanks ! and gratefully received.

Fanjo. I hope you get your op soon and at least that improves.
I have dodgy guts - was told I had IBS but don't think I really do - occasionally do get really painful trapped wind etc but not really any of the other symptoms - so I know how painful that can be - more often must be horrendous...
I know mine and weeing is purely in my head - and a bit stupid - but I can experience absolute blind panic and then lose control. Is better than it was - I tell myself I know I can hold, I practice holding at home and tell myself so what if I do wet myself ...its not the end of the world....but sometimes rational thinking goes straight out of my head.
Reading (not you) someone saying being desperate isn't too bad, just hold it when I associate that with blind (irrational) fear and panic makes me a little touchy...