to politely decline to use the disabled loo?

[MsIngaFewmarbles]

I was waiting in a long queue for the loo in a coffee chain and saw a lady with crutches head into the disabled toilet. She came out while I was still queueing. Another lady further back in the queue caught my eye and offered for me to go in first. I declined saying that I wasn't disabled so wasn't entitled to use it. She then countered away to her friends telling them that she was going to use it as 'it was the law' that if it wasn't being used you could use it. I couldn't face an argument so just ignored her. It's still bothering me that I should have said something to her and corrected her.

Stalequavers, go off and count your rice krispies then. I have found it eyeopening to see how many people think it is just fine to use the disabled facilities.

Jaded is right, disabled/accessible toilets need to be made truly accessible. It might be seen as sad to some that I get excited by a decent toilet with a large enough changing table to change ds on, but it makes our day a lot easier!

Erm, no. I've been involved in this thread since the begining. I have been on the parking thread and the buggy on buses thread that was deleted. No generalisations. The facts really do speak for themselves.

MNer's talking out their ass =/= the general population.

MN has a very small demographic of people in the first place, you couldn't even make a generalization about common attitudes towards anything based on this board.

Well youre right there bulbasaur, the real world is a lot worse than mn

Bulbasaur, a person with autism, learning disabilities or sensory issues, may struggle with queuing, or with the sound of the hand dryers (or flushing toilets in ds's case) or may not be able to hold on to go to the loo.

Bulb it isn't just about having enough room for a person to manouvre their chair. For a person with autism it can be a fear of crowds, the noises of the hand dryers (Dyson ones really bother my dcs). The lighting in some can be distressing and all of these things can lead to a meltdown, which in turn can lead to soiling.
As I said before, it was orginally the Chronically ill and Disabled Persons Act.

They may also not be able to go on their own at an age where it would not just be okay to go in with mum or dad.

Bulbasaur, a person with autism, learning disabilities or sensory issues, may struggle with queuing, or with the sound of the hand dryers (or flushing toilets in ds's case) or may not be able to hold on to go to the loo.

I never implied otherwise. Read my post again.

Still not making generalisations. I have lived in the world, I have helped write various acts with regard to Disability Discrimination. I have helped write policy for various governments. I'm well aware of what real life is like and how bloody stupid and selfish some people are. Of how people don't bother to fight for equal rights but are quick enough to demand them when it's a convenience for them. I used Mumsnet as a lazy shorthand.

Right, and if you have a need to move to the front to the line, you or your advocate need to let the people know so you can move ahead. They need to go to the front of the line to the first available cubicle, not the accessible one. That's what I'm saying.

If a person with a disability was in there, they very well could be taking much longer than a person with a rouge tampon and surprise poo.

But people dont have mobility problems or digestive problems or sensory issues. Sometimes they have a mix and do need the first available toilet to be an accessible one. I feel like we've gone so far off track on invisible disabilities using accessible toilets, people are forgetting that those in wheelchairs may still have additional needs on top of the extra space.

The disabled loo has design features for other disabilities than wheelchairs. It always has stronger lighting and no shadows, plus clearly laid out facilities. And no bolloxery with 'hidden' tap-turning-on mechanisms or fancy hard-to-work-out soap dispensers. That is very important for many people (like me) with visual impairments! We also benefit from the no-steps access (though obviously that's for ease of using wheelchairs too). Once I have a guide dog, I expect it will be very helpful to be able to get the dog in there with me, too! Not sure what the protocol is with guide dogs though, haven't had the training yet.

dawn - could I ask a question of you and your daughter? (if she would rather not answer please don't!)

Would your daughter's preference be for all loos to be made accessible or for there to remain a separate "accessible" loo? My worry - mainly for people who really need accessible loos - is that if all loos were accessible, people would just queue and use them all and might result in your daughter having to wait longer?

I think I've worded that badly but I'm involved with our local council and one of the things on our agenda is better toileting facilities and I'd love an opinion?

My proposal would be in general to have a couple of less loos and each cubicle larger but also maintain a separate loo which would encompass changing facilities/hoists etc?

housebaelish - not to preempt dawn donna or dawn donna's dd, but I think having the changing facilities in a separate cubicle from the hoist would be better, assuming there is space.

Thanks Wolfbasher :)

House, i know you didnt ask me but i would suggest that each of the small-but-larger-than-before cubicles had grab rails so people with lowered mobility could use them without having to use the wheelchair accessible one.

And large locks on the doors for reduced dexterity (you'd be well, some of you wont surprised how many accessible toilets have tiny piddley locks that i cant work)

Nono anyone's thoughts really welcome.

Definitely on my list that each cubicle should be larger and have things like rails.

My worry if we do away with the traditional "disabled" toilet - then people who really need it will end up queuing. I think people need the differentiation to say "hang on, its not ok to use this loo" (or I'd hope they would, but you know.....)

Large locks a great idea thanks!

I don't understand Bulbasaur, I thought you were saying you couldn't understand why someone with autism couldn't use a standard toilet.

I must have read your post wrong.

HouseBaelish - the one with the hoist should still have the disabled sign on it. Just because the others are larger than usual doesn't prevent that. As a previous poster mentioned, quite a few ladies loos now have one larger cubicle inside. My local M&S has - but it also has a separate disabled loo as well.

Can I put in a plea on behalf of the visually impaired for clear, strong lighting, please? And simple wash basins where it's easy to see how to turn on the taps and where the soap is! I quite often have to ask my 3yo to find the soap for me!!

House Hi!
I like the idea of extra large cubicles etc. You are absolutely right though, if everything is merged then those with continence problems of any description will be forced to queue. There is also the matter of privacy and private washing facilities for those with bags to empty. My personal opinion is there should always be the option of a seperate space for those who need and want it. I haven't asked dd yet as she is doing homework, but suspect her answer would be similar.
May I thank you for grabbing the opportunity to ask folk who are 'in the know'.

I just don't get why some people are arguing so vehemently for their right to use the accessible toilet. Is it some kind of backlash against disability rights? Or just the desire to keep doing it without appearing to be horrible person?

Am genuinely interested btw.

Not just his thread..people arguing elsewhere that they should be allowed to use wheelchair space on bus. Or judge large kids in buggies. Or wait in blue badge space. It's everywhere.

*this thread. Typing is shot today. not drinking ..yet..have got chronic whiplash which has flared up and makes hands numb.

Dawn and others who have replied - thank you!

I appreciate I'm coming at this from the lucky position of not needing an accessible toilet and I'm really conscious I don't want to project what I think might be needed at the expense of what actually might be needed!

I'm also thinking things like a lower basin, lower hand dryer, lower mirror for people in wheelchairs to use?

We also intend to have a unisex "family" loo which will be large enough for pushchairs, having changing table etc in. I think people with pushchairs sometimes struggle when their facilities are lumped in with accessible facilities and I think it would be good to have a space where people with chidlren can feel comfortable too

The best toilet we use (yes, I have a Top 10 toilets - I am that sad!) has

A large (adult sized) height adjustable fold down changing table
hoist
automatic soap dispenser (no lever)
low wash basin with large handled taps
paper towels (no hand dryer noise)
automatic bin
higher toilet
step by toilet