to not plan a trip to see the pandas in Scotland for ethical reasons

[lhldn]

Hi,

We are going on a family holiday to Edinburgh soon. We were planning to visit the pandas however just found out today that all pandas belong to the Chinese government. I would rather not support them with their human rights record and treatment of Tibet.

Am I being u to cross this off the list?

well its up to you...but is the rest of your life spent analysing everything for 'ethical reasons'?

All pandas "lent out" on the breeding scheme from China are owned by the Chinese government.

The profit from visiting them goes to Scotland, or Edinburgh Zoo, in particular. But the bears themselves are Chinese. That goes for most of the American pandas, too.

It's entirely your own decision whether that stops you wanting to see them. Unless you've already told other people that you will go and see them, in which case you should allow them to go and see the pandas, while you wait elsewhere.

I can see why you object, but ethics are such a personal thing. For some people, the issues that you've raised aren't important. For others, wanting to see the pandas overrides the ethics. It's up to you to decide where you stand.

Thanks seven, I'm glad to hear the Chinese government won't benefit directly.

I'm still not sure, thankfully haven't promised to see them but something sits horribly knowing that one government owns a whole species.

It isn't just pandas on the breeding scheme. All pandas outside China are loaned by the Chinese government. The zoo has to pay an annual fee which goes to China's Wildlife Conservation Association. Edinburgh Zoo has to pay around $1M per year for its pair of pandas. They, of course, have to pay regardless of whether or not you visit.

To be honest I thought your problem was going to be about keeping these creatures in captivity.
I hate to see captive animals, though there can be justification for this in some cases, e.g. where an effective breeding programme has been established.
In the case of pandas though, it is not so effective: they are very difficult to breed in captivity, and any successes have little impact on increasing the numbers of the wild population. Resources would be better channeled into preserving and protecting their natural habitat to encourage wild breeding and preserve the species.
Guess that's less interesting than cute, furry things in cages though.

You don't have to pay extra to see the pandas anyway- it's included in the entry to the zoo. You just have to book a slot. And -just to warn you- they are booked out for ages........

Pandas are a bit shit anyway. Evolution-wise I mean.

It's up to you if you want to boycott the pandas - though it seems in this case is effectively a boycott of Edinburgh zoo rather than the Chinese government.

Given how little impact the panda boycott would have on the government, it would be a pity for your family to miss out on account of it.

Make a donation to a human rights group, or find out from Amnesty International how you can lobby for improved human rights in China.

Has Edinburgh zoo changed its admissions policy recently? I used to live there and always just wondered in without paying anything. Then paid to go in the palm house.

I can see where you're coming from, but it seems a little obtuse as a protest strategy.

So many products are made in China now, would it follow that you also boycott these too?

(Genuine queries and comments, not intended to sound snidey, so I hope they've come across in the spirit of discussion and debate as intended!!)

You've always had to pay admission to the zoo. The palm house is in the botanical gardens.

Absolutely can't stand Amnesty International. DH used to donate to them and they still hound him for donations. Also thought it was sensible to ring him after the big earthquakes happened in China and ask him to support their efforts lobbying the Chinese government (DH is Chinese, very obvious from his name) - it was very badly timed.

Whoops yes that's the gardens!

Well I do limit my Chinese produced products actually, this generally means buying an expensive and relighable brand or just buying less, so its win win.

Also, I'm not saying China doesn't have human rights issues - but the western media do twist it quite significantly. I remember one incident on the BBC where they mistranslated a signpost to make it sound much worse than it was and it actually meant something really innocent. Also the BBC claimed that the torch incident at the Olympics was covered up but it was actually all over Chinese media.

One final thing - by all means protest, but our government will never do anything but 'panda' to China's (har har). And almost everything is made in China!

My Samsung galaxy wasn't made there, nore my vitamix blender. Think that's the only consumables I've bought this year that cost more than a few quid.

Speaking to Chinese protestors when I went to see the dali lama a few years ago formed my opinion not the media.

Absolutely. In fact you should stand outside the zoo protesting loudly with placards and get passing drivers to honk their horns in support of freeing the oppressed Chinese bears.

Or you could just enjoy a day at the zoo.

you could not go and see them and so could everyone else. then there would be no reason to put them in a zoo, to spend money on breeding programmes and support and they could just die out. sometimes you have to do a bit of a "greater good" calculation in your head. it is a bit holier than thou don't you think? imagine being in China and seeing the headlines for the various wars the UK have been dragged in to. bet they don't have a great view of us either.

The blasted pandas are always sodding asleep anyway.

I don't believe the pandas exist. Ds1 and I have looked on the panda cam loads and never bloody seen them.

The zoo is depressing beyond belief anyway, in my view. Especially in the depths of winter.

That's true, all the animals will be shivering inside their houses wondering why they got the short straw and aren't living the dream at San Diego zoo.