To think that it is hypocritical to be anti Private,Selective or Single Sex Schools when you have benefited from them.

[smokepole]

Having read many threads on this site and having read a couple in particular today, it seems that "most" of the posters on here have benefited from these types of schools. However, time and time again you read these people slating Grammar , Private and single sex schools. This is so hypocritical that the posters who have had the benefit of the best of the education system, seem so anti any form of selection for today's children.

I had the misfortune of being educated in a Secondary Modern in Kent in the 1980s . There are not many Secondary Modern educated posters on this site, which goes to show how fortunate the majority of posters on here were with their educations. These people are like "Champagne Socialists" having benefited from superior educations, but seek to deny the opportunities for future generations. "DO AS I SAY NOT AS I DO" springs to mind with these posters who espouse the merits of Comprehensive education, having not being educated through the Comprehensive system themselves.

"The point is every "caring" parent will choose the best school for their children. If the child is able and a Grammar/ Private school is Available or affordable , surely either is preferable over a Comprehensive for that child."

Both my children passed for highly selective grammar schools, in an area with a small number of residual grammars that are, to differing degrees, superselective.

They attend the local comprehensive, by our choice and theirs, and are doing fantastically.

Technically, the comp is a 'secondary modern', because there ARE grammar schools in the area. However, the percentage of children attending them is so small, that the comprehensive is just that - comprehensive. In fact its intake (only 5% low attainers, over 40% high attainers) is probably more akin to some grammars in fully selective counties than it is to a 'true' secondary modern.

I'm a bit puzzled, Pausing. Not least by the constant and monotonous harping on about certain schools. It's weird.

I and my husband are both privately educated - I on a 100% scholarship, he on a paid-for basis. DH cheerfully admits that the comprehensive our DCs go to is better than his old private school - and in fact comparing the results of the two schools, the comprehensive does significantly better.

I had the type of narrow-minded, narrowly-focused, rigidly academic education that typified a girls' boarding school of my era. I am not VERY damaged by it, but I look for better things for DD.

I'm confused by the costant references to Secondary Moderns-I thought they went out in the 60s/70s? Is there seriously areas that still have them?

Smokepole - what a sweeping generalisation you make. I went to school in the 70's. A awful sec modern, I am right wing, I didn't go to uni,
I am a higher rate tax payer, my children go to private boarding schools and neither I or them will ever be destined for a zero rate contract.

Spidey, yes. They may not be called that - which causes confusion. So a school in Kent, which is fully selective, might be caklled a High school or a Secondary school, or a Modern school, or X Academy. But becauise it is in a fully selective area and is not a grammar, it is still a secondary modern - the 'other' school to a grammar, the one accessible to you if you don't pass the 11+.

There are more selective areas than you might expect. Even in counties with very few grammars - e.g. Gloucestershire, the 'other' schools in towns with several grammars are very akin to secondary moderns, while schools further away in other parts of the county are closer to being comprehensive.

how do you define a solid 11+ area? you dont have to go if you pass any way.

i grew up in a tiny town and we had the choice of;

boys grammar
girls grammar
CofE school (excellent)
Catholic college (shit)
4x 11-16 schools (pretty shit)
1 ok 11-18 school
2 good (ex grammar) 11-18 schools
3 private schools

all in my opinion and what i remember. most of them defined themselves as comps tho

Yes, in grammar school areas anyone who doesn't pass the 11 plus goes to one. Beaconsfield School, one of the expensive areas to live outside of London is an inadequate school that fails their pupils and has done for yrs.

oh and fwiw if i had a girl she wouldnt go to the grammar. a boy would tho

Pausing. If you have read the thread, you will have read I qualified the description about today's Modern schools by saying that these schools have few similarities to the modern schools that graced the 70s and 80s. These are high achieving schools that are only called modern schools because they are located in selective areas. They do prove that you can have grammar schools and other schools together . They also prove that both types of school can co exist together and achieve high quality educations for their pupils.

I was also educated in the 1980s in Kent, in a "comprehensive" that was not one, as there were four grammars schools in the town. My parents are very against selective education systems, but very pro education, and very supportive of me and of my school, despite their own poor experiences. I got As in all my O and A levels. My school was excellent.

I am very anti single sex education and I went to a girls school. I would not wish the private girls school I attended on my worst emeny. The level of bullying and bitchness of the girls was unbelievable.

I don't think that single sex education gives a massive advantage socially over a socially similar coed school. Male students who had been to boys schools were incredibly immature.

Smoke pole. They prove nothing of the sort and your irrational hatred of comps is getting rather silly.

Schools which are not grammar schools are comprehensive schools, because they don't select on entry. This was true of my school in the 1980s. In areas with grammar schools, their intake is skewed towards lower ability on entry. However, this is also true in some areas with no grammar schools. My last school was one of two comprehensives in the town. Our entry was significantly below average in terms of KS2 attainment, the other about national average.

smokepole, in what way do current Secondary Moderns have few similarities to Secondary Moderns in the 70s and 80s?

Other than the differences which exist for all 70s schools vs all current schools? Which will include recognition of various conditions and learning support.

Indeed, why are you serving up examples from Cheshire when you live in East Kent which has fully grammar + sec mod system? Why are you not citing your own local schools?

"Paddock wood" has a Comprehensive School "Mascalls".

Thank you teacherwith2kids I've just googled it and learnt that in some areas schools are secondary modern in all but name. You learn something new every day. I went to school in an area that was fully comprehensive (I went to one myself, though it was a girls' RC school). I don't have kids myself (though if I did the area I'm in is comprehensive) so don't really know that much about schools except what is told to me by siblings and friends.

I was raised by wolves - I'd recommend it to anyone.

It was quite leafy, though ...

Seriously Smoke, your school obsession is getting a bit out of hand.

And?

(That was to smokepole.)

I was grammer, my brother was private and my sister was comp. We all have degrees and the other two have PHDs. It's all about finding the right school for a particular child, not sticking to some concrete rule about which type is best ...

All our kids are comp - and doing fine, thank you.

Pausing. I don't want to talk about schools that are close to me because I don't want to be Outed.

Here goes then my old school is now called the Folkestone Academy and has been transformed from a hell hole, to a sought after Academy it is providing a good Academic as well as a excellent vocational education to children. I hear from Parents that it is on the up.

There are only two Boys/ and two Girl Grammar schools in the locality, so I do not want to identify what schools my kids are at.

It is easy to talk about schools 270 odd miles away because there is no comeback. I know about those schools because I have researched them, for when/if I relocate to Cheshire/Trafford. My brother has lived in Knutsford over 20 years so has friends who went to the high School and have told me about their experiences.

So, it's getting better, but hasn't exactly been a shining beacon of a Secondary Modern?

Your claim (as far as I can make it out), is that true comprehensive schools are inevitably crap and have low aspirations.

And that a grammar + sec mod system is much better. When pointed out that many (not all) sec mods are in fact crap and have low aspiration, you create a scenario where sec mods are WONDERFUL and students FLEE comprehensives to come to them.

When asked about your local sec mods that you actually have experience of, you describe one which has for years been crap and had low aspirations.

And, with the exception of my brother, we were all at the same school - I was the last year of the 11 plus and it then became a comprehensive. My sister started there a couple of years later and four boys are all in sixth form/ just started Y9/ just finished and gone to uni ... I know it's totally unscientific but they all got far better results than I did and I was the only one who went through your beloved selection process!

TBH, you yourself have made the strongest case for comprehensives on this thread, by describing how your DC was threatened with having to change school, because she no longer met the profile the school was SELECTING for.

You had to fight for her education not to be disrupted by a move.

In a comprehensive that wouldn't happen (although the ones trying to become covert selectives try it on). They would expect to provide the support for learning difficulties and the stretch to higher grades within the same school.

Whether it's a rigid school discipline-wise, or a more relaxed one, is up to the individual school not the classification. As shown by the fact that private schools cover the gamut.