To not want my Grandchild to hunt?

[salsmum]

I am very much into animal rescue and hate to see cruelty against humans AND animals. DIL is pregnant with my 1st Grandchild which I'm obviously very excited about, I texted her today to ask how she was and how DS and 'bump' are and she said she was fine...etc.. and then excited tells me that her Nephew aged just a month into his 8th year is going out on his first hunt . Her family are country people and my DS will be moving to the country once GC comes along. I really hate the thought of any child going hunting especially my GC because I think it's not something a child should see nor be encouraged to take part in. My DIL knows my feelings on animal cruelty and feel upset that she should mention 'the hunt' to me (in an excited-so proud of DN way).

I sincerely hope you do not go near any kind of animal in real life

In the spirit of your ranting Chelsy this is what happens when YOU and your like get too near foxes. This is a fox that was illegally killed yesterday. This is what you support. This is what you have been defending albeit in the shadow of constant references made re: the meat industry.
Shame on you.
I apologise to others for the graphic content.

Well OP, I think its fair to say that your dilemma would not be a dilemma for some. In my opinion, it would be premature in the extreme to tackle your DIL on hunting when your grandchild is as yet, unborn. Good bet that DIL does not consider hunting as cruel and now is not the time to have that debate with her, she is pregnant and you have quite a few years until your Grandchild would be competent enough rider to even think about hunting. So let it go, for now at least.

I live in the countryside, in a very agricultural area. Less than 5% of all foxes killed annually was done via the hunt when hunting with dogs was legal, so I do raise an eyebrow at the pest control argument and always have done. The Hunt was and is now, a social occasion not a useful measure for farmers. I do not oppose the hunt that said and quite enjoy watching the horses and riders gather on Boxing Day. If our family lose animals to foxes, we check the fences and shelters. Then we ensure the livestock is put up in good time. As a last resort (entire gaggle of geese killed in broad daylight) we shoot them. I do not apologise for that. Not sure where that puts us on this scale of sociopathic tendencies being bandied about but this thread shows why any real constructive debate has always been impossible on this one.

I'd say that puts you at the non-sociopathic end Queen, taking reasonable pragmatic measures to protect your livelihood.

Why would the legislation need to describe hunting as anti-social, Chelsy? The purpose of a piece of legislation is to tell you what you can & can't do, not to re-hash the arguments for its own existence.

Roughly 75% of the population think hunting with dogs shouldn't happen, hence the then government's popular decision to frame legislation banning it.

Antisocial is defined as 'contrary to the laws and customs of society, in a way that causes annoyance and disapproval in others', which would seem to fit quite neatly in this case.

This is all so pointless.

I will go hunting, others won't like it.

They, of course, can hold any opinion they like. It doesn't bother me and it won't stop me hunting.

There you go - easy peasy!

Cant, do you think the fox population has to be controlled at all?

I will go hunting, others won't like it. It doesn't bother me

And yet you keep banging on about it.
Clearly it DOES bother you

Calloh
Nope.

But I now look forward to the inevitable drivel you are about to post.

, don't worry. I'm not going to post anything.

That's fair enough to think that - personally I quite strongly disagree, but I doubt we'll change each other's mind.

I was only going to point out that if you do agree with some form of fox control then, to a dead fox, the manner of its death is probably irrelevant.

Ok, I did post something - whoops

Calloh Have one of these and join me in agreeing to disagree

The fox population is mostly controlled by being run over, I believe.

socially - you're absolutely right, I can't stop you hunting. I can't stop Tesco selling live turtles in China, either, which undoubtedly causes more actual suffering.

I can a) prohibit my dc from taking part in hunting & b) hope that it will have gone the way of bear-baiting by the time they have children of their own.

...& sounds like an excellent plan....

, and more to one and all

Where am I banging on Can't?

You seem to have been posting all day - not much going on at yours then?

Wearing red for hunting is very silly.
As is blowing horns, thundering horses and baying dogs.
Surely everything just goes to ground.

Well clearly not as apparently we all do it for the bloodlust IME most people following the hunt do it for the thrill if the cross country chase and not the actual hunting, rightly or wrongly. The field don't see that much of the hounds as the huntsman will take them ahead and hunt the country away from them. The point if the field is to pay subs to pay for the hounds and in the old days to surround coverts and keep the fox in place for the hounds to hunt. I can hand on heart say the latter has not happened since the ban, in my experience hunting with 5 different packs.

Red coats identify hunt staff easily, they stand out against the countryside. One of our local hunts happen to wear hunter green and always have. Some wear brown, some yellow, some green, some red, but the point is they should be easily identifiable as opposed to the rest of the field. As for the jods/long boots/wool coats/hats we wear, all completely practical.

Aaaaaaaanyway, has OP been back to explain what kind of hunting the nephew was involved in?

I don't have time to write much on this thread right now, but....
(Predictably) there is so much ignorance (and arrogance) on this thread, from posters who clearly know nothing about hunting and have never spoken to anyone who hunts or has hunted. The 'frivolous cruelty'/'enjoying killing' assumptions are such utter, utter bullshit.
As has been explained, people enjoy hunting because they enjoy a good, sociable, challenging ride. Many horses enjoy hunting too (and as for the hounds... )
It's true that years and years ago children used to get 'blooded', blah, blah, but that's an ancient thing. (I'd be very interested to hear from anyone under 70 who was ever blooded...)...
'The killing' is not the thing that's 'enjoyed'. worra - what on earth makes you imagine that it is?
If fox hunting were still legal, do you imagine it would make death any less painful for the fox if hunters wailed and rent their clothes at the time of the kill?

raven it may be that people who know nothing of hunting and yet see fit to imagine that they know the thoughts of hunters tell themselves it's all about 'frivolous cruelty'. I think it's more likely that people see foxhunting and people who (used to) do it as a safe folk devils - safe targets for recreational outrage.

I am the queen of multi tasking Socially
Now have a [wine} and stop whinging :)

Ah, but... to a dead fox manner of its death is probably irrelevant ...

I'm not so sure... (ponders old arguments about alternative methods of fox population control: shooting, poisoning, etc...)

(Predictably) there is so much ignorance (and arrogance) on this thread, from posters who clearly know nothing about hunting and have never spoken to anyone who hunts or has hunted.

So what would you say to those who DO know about hunting? Who used to hunt? Who used to work in a hunt/point to point yard? Who knows all the tricks of the trade?

it depends what they had to say, Can't.

Why do you ask?

(Admission: I've only read half the thread... had to say something after reading worra's posts though...)

I used to hunt . Friends still do.

What 'tricks of the trade' are you talking about?

Cant So what would you say to those who DO know about hunting? Who used to hunt? Who used to work in a hunt/point to point yard? Who knows all the tricks of the trade?

Err, congratulations on being an omnipotent genius? Commiserations on failing in a number of fields? (were you sacked?) I just would not have anyone with your temperament near my animals.

But honestly, its not all about you. Really, it isn't.

That was my argument JulyKit - that it's popularly perceived as 'frivolous cruelty', which is why it's banned & other practices which cause more suffering aren't.

I'm sure for many of the field the cruelty is a by-product & it's the fresh air & exercise that gets them out the house & on to the back of a horse. I'm not disputing that at all.

But the 'chasing a small terrified creature to exhaustion & then ripping it to bits' is still going on as part of the same activity, even if we're going to accept the disengenuous notion that it's not the actual goal, so I'd rather not have anything to do with it.

Deeply unpleasant behaviour, IMO, being nasty to animals in the name of fun, whether it's the nastiness you actually get off on or not.

But I think the pro-hunting lobby on this thread have successfully debunked the popular assumption that hunting doesn't happen any more, now it's banned, which some may have found enlightening.

Err, congratulations on being an omnipotent genius? Commiserations on failing in a number of fields? (were you sacked?) I just would not have anyone with your temperament near my animals

Oooh er.... someone has spat their dummy out

So Chelsy tell me about the meat industry. You haven't really said much about it.

July What 'tricks of the trade' are you talking about?

You'll have to wait til she's googled the bit on firing and tries to pretend its common practice still.