To not want ds singing the bloody national anthem every day at school?

[lecce]

I am reeling about this and would love some opinions.

Last night the dc and I were taking it turns to play songs on Youtube, when ds1 (7, Yr 3) announced he wanted 'Land of Hope and Glory' for his next choice . I was stunned - I didn't even know he'd heard of it. In the interrogation that followed, it transpired that his class has been singing 'God Save the Queen' every day before home time. It has no relation to their current topic, which is India, of all things... Mention has been made of 'loving our country' and that, as 'we are English' we should know these lyrics.

On Friday, those who had completed their art work early were given the lyrics of 'Land of...' (not ds - never have I been so happy about his lack of artistic talent) but, apparently, they will all be 'doing' it soon.

I absolutely do not want my children singing these nationalistic, jingoistic lyrics every day. I don't want the school promoting this kind of cheap patriotism to them, either. This is not what education is about.

Is this Gove's fault? I am a teacher (sec) and have heard nothing about this particular type of brainwashing. AIBU to kick up a stink about this?

I'm not convinced 'might come up in a pub quiz one day' is a good rationale for learning something. the lyrics to GSTQ fall in to that category.

An educated, civilized person will know the words, as I said, to avoid looking like a tit if they are ever in circumstances when they need to. School is not such a circumstance.

I'm not convinced that you'd ever look like 'a tit' for not knowing the words to GSTQ. I'd be quite confident that the majority of the highly educated (and perfectly civilised) people I know don't know the words to GSTQ. Not that there's any situation that would arise where any of us would need to know them.

I could probably dredge up some of the words to O Flower of Scotland from some recess of memory, but I'd never need to. I wouldn't be worried if I'd forgotten them either..(Learnt from watching scotland play football, not at school, btw). Neither DH nor I know more than the first line of GSTQ (and neither of us would ever sing it, or stand for it for that matter) and we've got 6 degrees and a few of professional qualifications between us.

Saying 'all educated/civilised people must know X,Y and Z' is emblematic of the michael Gove school of education, but it's kind of missing the point of what an education actually is.

I went to a conference once where before the opening speeches the Star Spangled Banner was played and everyone stood up. It was the weirdest experience, and made me very glad to be English and not do that sort of thing...

I would think a person who didn't know the words to their national anthem was very poorly educated.

I think YABU op but then again I am American. I sing the Star Spangled Banner every night after cleaning my guns. Then I sit down to Big Mac, after which I send out pamphlets on the evils of evolution and socialized medicine.

A previous Welsh secretary of state ( John Redwood I think) looked an absolute & complete tit shapelessly mouthing the words to the Welsh anthem Land of My Fathers at a Rugby match i think.

at Cheerful

Of course, there was a time, before the BBC was overrun with poovery and PC nonsense, that every man jack in the country would stand and salute, salute I tell you, the television screen at shut-down when the national anthem was played. Oh for a return to those glorious days, instead of shopping channels which are probably all run by Muslims anyway.

cruikshank You stand in for Richard Littlejohn when he's on holiday, don't you?

You need to know these songs whether you agree or not with them. School is being quite reasonable.....I grew up in Scotland where flower of Scotland was sung at the drop of a hat (most memorably at the end of schoo,discos!). Nay fucker could every NOT know the words.....

Similarly, most people I know we're forced to do Scottish country dancing every autumn term.....and consequently no scot would embarrass themselves at a wedding or ceilidh

I dont know the national anthem aNd i agree with nooka, i find it vety odd watching americans get all odd. I am not poorly educated, just rather well educated in different things.

I'm not that old, and when I was a child everyone stood up to sing the National Anthem at the theatre, either before or after the play, can't remember. I spent some time in Taiwan as a young adult, and they had the National Anthem at the cinema before every film. Mind you, Taiwan was/is very small, and threatened by a very large neighbour. It's out of that kind of insecurity that nationalism comes.

It divides the wheat from the chaff. I hope people also know the French national anthem too. North Korea's is worth listening to on their website. Private schools make sure pupils know the UK national anthem along with a lot of other things and I would hope every state school could seek to ensure no child leaves the school without knowing it and a lot much else too. However singing it every day would be very unusual indeed.

In Iran before I gave one talk a massive screen came down and we were shown a short film in Farsi about the forces of good and evil, plants' growth speeded up and the like.

I don't think we need the national anthem every day but ensuring no child leaves school without knowing it and most of our main hymns and the like is a good idea along with Shakespeare and all the rest which is part of a good education. No reason state schools cannot do this as well as private schools as it requires no money at all.

OP - you think having pride in your country is a bad thing?! How do?

I think having pride in your country would stop the British vandalising their own country and British Jihadists being created.

I have lived abroad and so I have a lot of pride in my country for a number of things but the ability to sing what is a blinking boring national anthem is not one.

I think celebrating British Values is a fantastic thing - after all we have democracy and a celebrated, oft copied, legal system. We're pretty good at women's rights and equality legislation, and we even have female Bishops now. We have a better attitude towards gay people, disabled people etc than a heck of a lot of other countries.

Teaching these values in context, building a sense of fairness and justice and creating children who will be assets to the word British is good. Teaching people to be proud of Britain "just because" and singing the national anthem daily is a new development and it's right to be suspect of the motives.

I didn't say the pledge as a teen, because I didn't feel.our country worked for the liberty and justice of all.

But now I do, and take it seriously. If I'm going to swear allegiance to something, I'm going to make sure I do my best to make sure it's something worth swearing allegiance too.

I believe in America. I believe in our constitution. That might be silly to you, but like most Americans I give no fucks what you forriners think anyway

I don't know more than the first line of GSTQ and I have a doctorate. I have never, ever had to sing it in my life. But then I'm Scottish and Catholic. I don't like GSTQ because I don't respect an unelected head of state. But I don't like Flower of Scotland either, because it's backward looking and makes us sound like we have a huge chip on our collective shoulder.

I do, however, get quite emotional at the Star Spangled Banner - it's just a very moving song! And I quite like seeing the Stars and Stripes on houses and street corners in the US - I probably just find it a bit dreamy and romantic but it's very different to how I feel when I see a Union Jack hanging out of a window. When you come from Glasgow and you're Catholic, you kind of internalise the idea that it means you're not welcome.

Absolutely horrifying. I would be very shocked indeed if my child was being taught that it is in any way acceptable to have an unelected head of state, that God exists (rather than as a concept in historical context), or that it is ok to sing somgs that were used to justify oppression, plunder and slaughter. I think people suggesting that the singing of God Save the Queen is in any way acceptable should be ashamed of themselves.

This thread is rather old...was there something specific that prompted bringing it back?

ZOMBEEEE.

Appreciate this thread is old...am relatively new to MN.

Utterly disgraceful thread. Makes me sad and v v angry too. Clearly written by that despicable specimen that is Cherie Blair, or at least one of her left wing cronies.

Why the fuck should this not take place in England? Er, hello we are in England. Ooops, sorry. English aren't allowed to do anything remotely 'English' anymore. We have to call ourselves British. If the Scots can call themselves Scottish, Welsh call themselves Welsh etc then why cant English be called English and do patriotic things?

However since the labour party introduced PC in its extremes , then the country has become totally fucked up over this and people are frightened of saying/ doing something that could be deemed as racist, zenophobic, etc

It may be that OP would be more happy with her child singing the Polish/ Italian/French national anthem each day. Anything that lo and be-hold/ dare I say is English.

OP, and I'm being polite here, needs to seriously do one.

Yeah, it's political correctness that's fucked this country up....GORN MAD, it has

I haven't read the whole thing but I agree with OP. I would not be happy with this. I find patriotism dangerous and I do want my child singing a song that marks one human (the queen ) as better than anyone else. It is completely against what I believe.

It's an absolutely awful anthem, I've never understood why the "queen" is more worthy of being saved than anyone else, but it seems most people don't seem to object to it. I'd much rather have lovely hymns sang in morning assembly than the dire, boring national anthem.

Ooops, sorry. English aren't allowed to do anything remotely 'English' anymore. We have to call ourselves British.

Said who when? I must have missed that particular edict. Can you point me to the relevant piece of legislation.

the country has become totally fucked up over this and people are frightened of saying/ doing something that could be deemed as racist, zenophobic, etc

What exactly is it that you want to say that you feel you can't say or do without fear of being labelled racist or zenophobic [sic] ? I find this fear odd as judging by your posting style you don't strike me as being a shrinking violet.

You're on an internet forum, why not say what you want to say here and now?