To think a full day trip to a mosque for 6 year old school trip is a bit much?

[Jint]

I'm all for comparative religious education, learning what other religions believe and what they're about, but my daughter is in year 2 and, with her (non denominational) school, has probably been in the Anglican church for maybe 2 hours (1 hour each year for a carol service), never been to a Synagogue or any other place of worship, but is spending a whole day in a mosque. School trip that we have to pay for, and the girls are 'welcome' to wear headscarves, but not compulsory. This is not in any way an issue with the religion, but not sure why it's such a big investment in one religion. There are 3 muslim pupils in the 60 in her year.

Also, you've got to start somewhere. In my DCs' class, most kids are Hindu apparently, then Muslim, then there are a few Sikhs and then my DC (Jewish). There's something like three and two Christians across their forms. Going to a temple would be useless if half the class went there regularly. You have to pick a religion as I bet parents would be up in arms if their DC had four days off to spend a full day at a mosque, synagogue, church, gurdwara, for example. Islam is midsunderstood by many, it is a very common religion (most common after Christianity, maybe??) and therefore is the natural choice, if most kids will have been church.

May I point out without being accused of "screaming racism" that OP also said Islam is a minority religion in her school she she objects to a whole day trip to a mosque.

It is somewhat disingenuous to suggest there is no need to even explore the subject of xenophobia here, because it is very insidious in the UK at the moment.

Op you may well object if it was a church but in your OP you said it was disproportionate attention to Islam.

And you don't even know what other visits she will have.

A 6 year old would just find it a fun outing.

Extremism in any religion is frightening I agree.

I didn't see any overtones in the op but them I not habitually on the look out for it.

I find all religions tedious and generally dangerous in their hypocrisy and mysogynicy but my children went on all such visits after I had checked that my dds were not required to dress differently to the boys and they could ask questions.

All that was fine so they went.

I would love to see a religious free world but that's not going to happen is it.

Okay, I can't really say anymore that it isn't about that particular religion so I won't.
Quicknamechange - eek, outed!! I genuinely had no idea that other parents were upset about it and I didn't know that there were people refusing to go. I work so don't do the school run so am not aware of any of that. Think I need to name change now.....
I'm not objecting to the trip in any way and wouldn't dream of refusing to allow her to go, just felt a whole day on one religion at 6 was a bit much. Similarly I felt sex education at the age of 5 (as they did last year) was a bit much. As it happened with that, it was a storm in a teacup (in my own head) as the sex education turned out to be nothing of the sort really, and I'm sure this will turn out to be different to what I expect too.
But good to hear that there will be other religions dealt with in years to come.

I find myself irritated about school trips in general. Primary schools taking kids out of class 2 or 3 times a term, residentials costing hundreds of pounds, long journeys in coaches half way across the country at all times of the year. There seems to be no attempt to justify the educational value.

So many things seem to duplicate family activities, like trips to the pantomime or taking the kids to a Disney film or watching a DVD in class.

I do get the point that some children might otherwise not have some of these opportunities but I think more thought needs to be given to the cost, the practicalities, not duplicating family activities and justifying the benefit.

My local mosque does a huge amount of outreach stuff - I went to an Islamic art exhibition there, they do school visits, volunteers on hand to take you round if you so much as look interested, they've had displays of different Korans, an "Islam through the ages" exhibition, LOADS of community things.

I would imagine that as soon as my child is old enough to be taken to any place of worship, the school will choose the one that is easy to access, doesn't charge, has exhibitions on and is actively encouraging school groups to come and have a look, which is likely to be the mosque.

The local church could do the same but doesn't (sore point with some of the PCC who feel they should).

Jint tbh the bit that would piss me off would be the letter from the school saying that a headscarf was optional for the girls. If a school has organised a trip to a mosque I would expect the school to have agreed with the mosque that headscarves for either sex would not be expected. To me it sounds as if the school is agreeing that on this occasion girls should be treated differently to boys which is obviously unacceptable. Surely that is teaching children that in some circumstances it is absolutely fine to treat boys and girls differently? Why is the school putting a child in a position where she may feel uncomfortable about being the only child not wearing a head scarf?

In dd's school, we are told that ALL hair beyond a certain length must be tied back, that ALL pupils can wear trousers, that ALL pupils with long hair must wear swimming hats and that's how I think it should be.

And welcome to MN! Don't let AIBU put you off the other MN boards, it's really unlike any other part of the site (although it has thrown up some classic threads as well).

No panic Jint, I have no idea who you are! Just it became obvious you were talking about our school.

I would think a full day at a mosque has been carefully planned by the teachers with activities of interest and educational benefit for the children. It wouldn't trouble me in the least that they were spending a whole day at a mosque, any more than I'd be concerned if it happened to be a synagogue or a church. And in the current political and cultural climate, a trip to a mosque might be a particularly appropriate place to start any study of comparative religions.

When people object to the wearing of headscarves, sometimes their objections do originate in Islamophobia. I think it's perfectly appropriate to mention that on this thread. Some people do indeed respond vociferously to the wearing of scarves in Islam, while not batting an eyelid about males wearing yarmulkes and tallitot in a synagogue or the like. It doesn't seem as though the OP's objections fall into this category but the first post didn't make it clear exactly what troubled her about the headscarf issue. If I were in the OP's shoes, I wouldn't send a scarf for this trip, as the school has made it clear there is no reason to do so.

In many religions, there are standards of dress for those visiting the places of worship. It wasn't so long ago that women routinely wore hats or scarves to CofE and RC churches. In Russian Orthodox churches to this day, women cover their heads and men remove their hats. If I want to enter an Orthodox church I respect the rules they have set. If people don't want to follow those rules, fair enough, there's no law saying they have to visit such a church. But I would hope no one here would be as ill-behaved as a student who belonged to a group I led to Russia a few years ago. One of the excursions involved visiting a church, and this particular student made a point of not removing his baseball cap, saying with a smirk that he should be allowed to wear it if the women students could wear head coverings. It was extremely unpleasant and disrespectful. And he was a university student, certainly old enough to know better.

So just had a text saying she said it was the best day ever. DH asked why, what's good about mosques and she said 'they're just nice'
Back to my corner

My question is not about the specific religion, it's about the balance of time spent on any one religion

I think most of us realised that, OP - you didn't know that they'll (hopefully) visit a variety of religious places over the primary years, but you've now found it out by asking the question; sounds fair enough to me

It's obviously important for children to learn about a whole range of things, religion included, but if we've reached the point where we have to be especially careful before even mentioning a mosque, we really are in deeper in the doo-doo than I thought

Jint thats fab that she had a good time.
At my kids multi ethnicity primary school, the only place of worship they've ever been to is a church. That's at Christmas to sing carols. Kids of all faiths go including the Muslims.

Glad she enjoyed it

I am glad she liked it!

Even after 20 yrs my DD remembers how kind everyone was. And I hope this has had a part in her respect and acceptance of all cultures and religions.

Our family are practicing atheists

My dh is a Muslim, and I can assure you there are rules of modest dress for men too. Legs must be covered and (in his mosque) small caps are worn to cover the head. No shorts/bare arms allowed.

UK is imo one of the most tolerant and non-racist countries in the world, considering the diverse, multi-cultural make-up of its inhabitants. This is because we have always tried to understand eachothers' religions and cultures. I like the idea of inviting children to mosques (and any other religious building) Respect is the key word. Wearing a headscarf, removing shoes isn't indoctrination or anti-feminist, just respectful of the customs pertaining.
As a primary teacher, I took many classes of 8yr olds to our Cathedral for the day. If the teacher is any good at all, there are dozens of fascinating and educational activities to be enjoyed. I wish there had been a mosque to visit (and other religious centres) but in those days there weren't in our area.

My confused dh many years ago was asked to remove his little cap in Westminster Abbey. As a Muslim he thought you should keep it on out of respect! And I always wear the jihab when visiting mosques in Africa. I'm a practising Christian but it's only polite.

I went to Mosque for a school trip when I was 9 so about 17 years ago.

Don't really remember the ins and outs of the trip but I do remember the lovely Iman.

A whole day trip during a school day is not actually that long ime.
Yesterday we did a Y2 trip - by the time we had registered, got to the toilet. got bags and coats and set off - it was 10am just gone when we arrived.

We have to leave no later than 2:15pm to ensure we were back at school for 3pm, to make sure def not late for a 3:20 pick up.

We need to allocate at least 30-45 minutes for lunch and toilet break.

So, actually - that is 4 hours max. It's not like doing a day trip yourself where you leave earlier, get home later and have several hours.

Usually places have a series of activities planned and organised so there should be little time to get bored and restless.

Is it a through primary school? If so, maybe they will visit other places of worship later in their school year.

I know in Y1 our children visit a CofE church - half a day but it is only round the corner so no travel needed, just a 5 minute walk. They don't actually visit a mosque or other place of worship, but when they go into the juniors they do.

Not jihab, I meant hijab!!!

Glad to hear she had a good time Jint

This is a tangent, but its interesting how much the C of E is the default for church visits, even though its just one strand of Christianity. Quite a few C of E parish churches are completely atypical of contemporary British Christianity - too elderly, too white, too formal.

As a balance and of course because visit to mosque all day is educational, are the children also exposed to lectures of atheists and atheists work?

Or is it only religious people who make up the UK who we need to learn about for future world peace?

There's not much to learn about atheists though is.

"Those people there...they don't believe in any god. They believe in science". End. It would be a short trip.

out school did similar but also visited other places of worship. They were all required to cover their head and bring a vegetarian lunch which pissed me off tbh.

Glad she had a good time jinty