To think a full day trip to a mosque for 6 year old school trip is a bit much?

[Jint]

I'm all for comparative religious education, learning what other religions believe and what they're about, but my daughter is in year 2 and, with her (non denominational) school, has probably been in the Anglican church for maybe 2 hours (1 hour each year for a carol service), never been to a Synagogue or any other place of worship, but is spending a whole day in a mosque. School trip that we have to pay for, and the girls are 'welcome' to wear headscarves, but not compulsory. This is not in any way an issue with the religion, but not sure why it's such a big investment in one religion. There are 3 muslim pupils in the 60 in her year.

my son went when he was in year 2 he died of boredom. did not understand any of it. But i think there was a choice if you wanted your child to go or not.

How is a head scarf any different to a hat?

I would be fine with my children going on a trip to a mosque.

I'd be fine with my dd wearing a headscarf assuming the boys were also expected to wear a headscarf.

As it is, I'm going to assume only girls are expected to wear it, in which case, I would not allow my dd to wear it.

When my kids were primary aged they had a day trip to the Hindu Temple at Neasden. Now that is worth a whole day. They had a brilliant time.

Just wondering about the headscarf objectors. When we were in Greece we visited a little monastary and women had to have their heads and arms covered. Same in Malta. Why is it different when it's muslims?

What is the issue exactly,
A) it's a full day and they are too young
B) it's a mosque and Islam
C) there are no similar trips planned for other places of worship
D) DCs may be bored

I object to the idea that a female child should cover her head. If they said everyone should, then fine...but its the misogynistic notion that not wearing it as a female is immodest....this idea is bad enough when applied to adults but even more objectionable when applied to children.

I would be surprised to get a letter saying they were sending 6 year olds to a mosque for a full day. They are normally buildings with a large amount of empty space designed to accommodate large numbers of people praying at the same time.

I would then assume that there were activities planned to occupy the time. The Islamic Centre near us (not technically a mosque but functions for the community in a similar way) does activites for the madressa children which make use of the space. Things like going on a pretend Hajj to help them understand the steps involved rather than just reading about it. So one room is set up as a pretend aeroplane, then they dress up and they walk between pretend mountains and throw screwed up newspaper balls instead of stones. They are about 6 and seem to have fun.

I'm sure an appropriate and fun activities could be run for schools. But I understand the OP surprise, my school trips to a mosque (and Church and Temple) involved standing around being quiet and respectful while an old man talked and i thought it was boring. Hopefully things have improved!

Bearing in mind your child is in yr2 and has many years of school trips ahead, why is it an issue that they are visiting one place of worship this year, presumably to support learning about that religion. They will learn about other religions as they go through primary and secondary schools and may have more opportunities to visit other places of worship.
It's a bit like complaining that they learnt about the Norman conquest in history and visited a castle but didn't also go to a museum about World War 2.
Unless you are suggesting that children should have learnt the whole school curriculum by the age of 7?

I would want my DC to be respectful of other people's religious customs: if that means wearing a headscarf, then my DD would wear a headscarf.

I would rather my children were polite, respectful and open to new experiences. That is the point of going to school? Being educated. Or am I missing something?

If you object to this trip, don't send your DC, easy really

FGS this has been done to death. See here www.mumsnet.com/SearchArch?mustmatch=Mosque&dontmatch=&nickname=&src_displ_option=s_t_d_t&fromDate=&toDate=&topicmode=All&availtops=-1

I'm really surprised by alot of the responses to this thread and the thread itself a bit. I teach all the R.E. in KS 1 at my school and (shameless bragging) we were recently given an award for the quality of our teaching which, if I say so myself is engaging, varied, thoughtful and exciting. I'm actually not religious myself but I very much enjoy teaching the children about the beliefs of others because it's part of life. Not only does it help them to understand the world around them but it's a really interesting way of looking at all sorts of other concepts and values.

Anyway, my class would be overjoyed to visit a mosque. We've spent quite alot of time in Anglican Churches and a cathedral and are going to a synagogue later in the year. Hopefully we will be able to visit a mosque too at some stage. The children are interested in it because it is bringing their learning alive. They have a chance to see the artefacts we have been talking about in class and to ask questions and get a sense of what each religion is all about. I wouldn't bat an eyelid at my children or my dd being asked to wear a headscarf on such a visit. That's what women do in mosques! What would you do if your child wanted to travel in the future and went to a country or place of interest where that was expected? Tell them to refuse?!!

Would they bother taking the girls as well as the boys? In most countries muslim women aren't welcome at the mosque, it's a place for men to pray because men are very important and special. The girls would be better off making lunch for after the mosque visit, surely.

I would rather my children were polite, respectful and open to new experiences. That is the point of going to school? Being educated. Or am I missing something?

I don't mind my children abiding by any religions customs if visiting any place of worship providing it is not a custom which singles out my child on the basis of being female and therefore having to abide by some bizarre idea of 'modesty'.

I would rather my children were polite, respectful and open to new experiences. That is the point of going to school? Being educated. Or am I missing something?

Also this from NancyRaygun sums it up completely for me.

That's what women do in mosques! What would you do if your child wanted to travel in the future and went to a country or place of interest where that was expected? Tell them to refuse?!!

Well I hope one day, they and other women will have the RIGHT to refuse.

But you're not saying you agree with that practise or would like to do it yourself you are showing respect for the beliefs and customs of others. It might lead to an interesting discussion about why women do this or whether it is right to do this. That will be really worthwhile. My children always come up with really interesting comments and questions when we look at hijabs and I take on board all of their veiwpoints.

Yes, personally I agree with you formerbabe, but having travelled and worked in the middle east I can tell you that in many parts of the world you would be very naive to imagine that you can just choose whether or not to conform to certain customs. My DW (we're both women) is a pilot who worked in a very hostile environment in West Africa for most of her working life. She is a pretty tough cookie but now, when she works in the middle east she still has to abide by their laws and customs to avoid being put in prison!

For one last time:
I don't object to the trip, therefore I won't be keeping her home
She isn't required to wear a headscarf as I stated in my original post so I'm not objecting to that.
I am not saying she's too young to do a full day trip.
I am not saying she will be bored.

What I am saying is, for comparative religion, it seems to be a particularly long time on one religion.
For those saying, she's got years of school trips ahead so I should know that it will all balance out; that's exactly my point. I don't know that. She's my first child so I have no idea what's ahead of her in terms of school trips, religious education or anything else, hence my question.
What I was looking for was a sensible answer that said something like 'yes it's normal, in year 3 they usually do judaism, in year 4 it's Hinduism' or whatever.
I am more than happy for her to learn about other religions but want to know that it's balanced. I would be asking exactly the same question if she was spending all day at a CofE church, a synagogue or whatever.

In relation to the scarf I can see that I haven't explained myself properly in my original post. She's 'welcome' to wear a headscarf puts the onus on me to decide. Personally I'd rather she didn't for all the reasons many other people have stated but I don't feel that strongly about it and if it was required, or the other children were doing so, I would want her to conform. As it is, I've made the decision (with her) not to, but I worry that she may be the only girl that doesn't and will feel awkward.

I really didn't think it was that controversial a question. And to all those crying racism etc. I wonder if you'd have had the same reaction if I'd posted exactly the same question but about a whole day at a church, which I certainly would have done? My question is not about the specific religion, it's about the balance of time spent on any one religion.

If you travel abroad you must adhere to the laws of the land of course you should.

Not sure anyone would disagree with that as it's very simple.

My now older children are polite and respectful thanks very much but they are also huge advocates of the rights of women.

There is absolutely no requirement what do ever in the Koran for women to wear a head scarf or cover up. Both sexes are required to dress modestly.

So unless you turn up in swim wear or a thong normal western dress should be fine in a mosque.

All these requirements for girls/women to cover up are man made policies not religious requirements.

I didnt teach my children unquestioning obedience to religious requirements be they Muslim, Christian or Jewish.

I Imagine we all have interesting discussions with our children don't we? but for our family the fact that women are required to dress modestly to help control men's sexual desires is as ridiculous as the Catholic Church having only I married men as priests.

It's one day. Just ONE. Your child is going to spend over 100 this year alone at school.

It's hard to believe your post isn't, in a some small way, motivated by feeling uncomfortable about Islam. But if you say not of course I believe you: but how could this not be a controversial question in today's climate. It strikes me as disingenuous you wouldn't predict that.

I'm gutted that I never got to visit a mosque or any other place of non christian worship.

I think that going to the mosque for the day is a brilliant opportunity. Islam is a major religion in the UK. Maybe there aren't many muslims at your children's schools, but there are plenty of muslims in the UK. Infact muslims out number practicing christians in dd's class.

I think dd would love trying on an islamic head scarf. She would see like dressing up.

jint as I have posted before your posts are fine. There are a few posters who perceive racism in any post, it's boring and lazy but best ignored.

I agree a whole day is too long and yes my children would have been bored witless at that age.

There's not a day in a huge cathedral let alone a mosque which by nature are much simpler buildings.

Nancyraygun, not disingenuous but wish now I'd lied and said it was a cathedral!

Thanks thebodynowchillingsothere

I can understand what you're saying about a wish to see that there is a balance in the religions that will be studied. I think that was worth clarifying as your OP seemed to raise quite a few concerns at once.

Hopefully there will be a balance. I remember learning about Divali a lot in RE and very little else - as with any subject people don't always get it hundred percent right.

If there is going to be a slant, though, it seems to me that learning about Islam is not a bad way for it to go. This religion - and misunderstanding and misinterpretation of it - has driven and is continuing to drive some of the most important things going on in our world today. Or don't you agree?